Originally Posted by Sunvox

Alright . . . Uncle

I agree Delta's profit sharing is superior to ours.

However (you knew there would be a "however" right )

However, the context of the post was in regards to the commonly held misconception that Delta's contract is superior to ours. This is supported in United pilot's minds by several topics some of which hold true and some of which do not. They get better profit sharing but we get reassignment pay. They get more hours for a vacation day but we get a whole week more days of vacation for long periods of our career. On closer examination our contracts are not actually that far apart. Now does that mean we shouldn't try to match the aspects that are better and vice versa for Delta? No, of course not. Just making the point that they are not WAY ahead of us . . . now given the recent AIP, IF that becomes a contract then, yes, they will be WAY ahead of where we are today.

Last minor thought I had regarding the specifics of profit sharing. This is something I do not know and would have to research, but honestly I wonder. So, profit sharing is calculated by a specific formula at both Delta and United and, as I previously argued, the different formulas, IN THE PAST, would have resulted in almost identical numbers if we had equal profit, but you make the excellent point that Delta pilots seemingly get 16% more. My question is: does the profit sharing pool get calculated and THEN the 16% is added on or does the profit sharing pool get calculated and then the 16% is backed out from that number. If the former then you are absolutely correct and Delta gets an automatic 16% more, but if the latter then the pool of money is the same just the buckets into which it is divided are different. Given that were talking about profit sharing pools for pilots in the $500 million range 16% added on would not be trivial and I'd be a bit surprised if that is how the calculation is done. I don't know the answer to that question, and really it doesn't matter as regards the point of Delta contract versus United.

Originally Posted by Buck Rogers

Following is a compilation of posts regarding Delta and their PS because I think it is important regarding pattern bargaining....knowledge is power. Best of luck






And then Sunvox asked questions in the Delta forum. The following is part of it.....Hopefully, you will get an amended contract comparison update after our(Delta's) TA(maybe)








edit..Sorry Sunvox...took me time to get it together. I wasn't trying to out you or anything....Just wanted to get the info out there. My apologies, this is not personal, but accurate info is important

Originally Posted by Sunvox

Not to worry. I'm happy to be "outed" if that's what it takes to get the "facts".

Now I don't want you or anyone else to take this personally . . . and . . . I'm not trying to "toot my own horn" here just providing some insight as to where I'm coming from but . . . I have an MBA from Dartmouth College and I can assure you this statement is patently false: " the difference in accounting rules to designate money for PS was the big difference.' This is the kind of internet conspiracy bunk that makes finding "facts" so hard to acquire. If you'd like to better understand why I say what I do I'm happy to take a PM and give you my personal email, but I will stop posting on this topic after this post because I see it quickly devolving into mud slinging and that is not what I want by any means.

Before signing off from this thread I just want to reemphasize one point and people on APC and any other forum upon which I am active are free to form their own opinion both about me and this remark, but the idea that: "the difference in accounting rules to designate money for PS was the big difference" is why Delta pilots have received higher payouts is patently and provably false.

Originally Posted by fadec

So "one old dude" aka "one ladder pulling boomer" wishes to accept a substandard deal rather than no deal. No surprise there. "Rainbows and unicorns" aka contract 2000 inflation adjusted rates plus Delta's per-diem and work rule improvements will have to wait until the next contract.

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44

The Delta agreement is in serious danger of not making it through the MEC. Right now vote is 9-8 to send it on, but there is a possible recall happening next week that could shift it to 9-8 against. We did everything the right way. No illegal job actions, mediation, picketing, strike vote, lanyards, etc. and company is nickeling and diming us on pay implementation. They’re literally playing with fire.

Originally Posted by mtnlife89

I'm surprised more people haven't pushed for increasing average daily value (or even more preferably minimum daily value) to 5.5-6 hrs/day. Trips become more efficient (especially for narrow-body fleets) and overall compensation increases even if we don't see a dime more in rates than DAL. During shoulder season months, we should see more days off by achieving a higher credit value with less days of actual work and during the busy summer and holiday months, at the very least we see a decent increase in pay for working our tails off. Is this just not something we want to waste negotiating capital on for some reason???

Originally Posted by mtnlife89

I'm surprised more people haven't pushed for increasing average daily value (or even more preferably minimum daily value) to 5.5-6 hrs/day. Trips become more efficient (especially for narrow-body fleets) and overall compensation increases even if we don't see a dime more in rates than DAL. During shoulder season months, we should see more days off by achieving a higher credit value with less days of actual work and during the busy summer and holiday months, at the very least we see a decent increase in pay for working our tails off. Is this just not something we want to waste negotiating capital on for some reason???