When do we find out how much we get?

Looks like just below 700m at 7-8%. Based off the full year and precedence. The call tomorrow will show the final figure.

Thanks for the lesson and I'm gonna go back to my HS English teacher and punch him square in the face! ;-)

That plan checks wonderfully with your avatar; I appreciate the motif.

That right there is the attitude that makes a lot of new pilots absolutely resent the old guard. He helped contribute to 363 days of United finances. It should be pro rated but the “we have always done it that way” attitude reigns supreme.

Therein lies one of the problems.
He/she DID NOT “help contribute to 363 days of United Finance’s ”. The pilot started to contribute to our bottom line when, and only when - they were turning a wheel and making money for the company. And they were not alone. As someone who did 2 full training courses this past year, I too did not create revenue for the company during that time. Difference is, I (and everyone here for the full year of 2022) will be eligible for (what little there is of) Profit Sharing. It is what has been negotiated and agreed upon.

This subject comes up every single year around this time.
Do I agree with it 100%, no.
But where do YOU want to draw the line.
Should your example get a pro rated amount? Maybe.
should the pilot who retired on Dec 29, 2022 get a pro rated amount? More than maybe.

Are YOU going to accept a smaller amount in your PS so others get something?

Not a slam here, but I would encourage you to present a resolution at your next local council meeting suggesting just that.
If the company is going to give the pilot group x amount of money, then see about changing the way it’s divided amongst this pilot group.

Motch

PS) Proud to be an “old guard” but my meaning is probably different that yours. Just remember, in about 20 years most of the legacy pilots will be gone. And IF there is a merger between now and then (very likely) just remember your views today when someone younger and of a different group calls you out, and “resents” you,

As a side note, the 29 Dec retiree would in fact get PS with the new DAL TA, and that should absolutely also be the case here.

Okay, how about profit sharing be handled by number of days worked in the year. Regardless of years served.

I'm not a fan of pilots not voting until off probation, nor of them not getting profit sharing or any of the other rewards of working for this company. The gate they had to pass was getting hired and trained here. After that they're our peers. Full stop.

As someone who's been in this industry for several decades and seen far too much old guard rhetoric, I will say all it does it diminish new hires respect of us. And well deserved at that.

Fix reserve rules for those that come after us and for those below us in seniority. Fix voting rights, and fix profit sharing. Let's make this the place people want to work by showing everyone who comes that we value them as equals.

So where do you come down on reserves based on this "creating revenue" line of reasoning? What if your fleet is retired (RIP -400) and you have a training cycle as a result of a displacement? No profit sharing for that period?! If you're showing up to work, and the business is profitable, you are a part of that success and you deserve your piece of profit sharing. Plain and simple.

Now we're going to encourage people to work while sick so they can qualify for max number of days worked? Or fly fatigued? Wait, don't we get more vacation weeks as we gain years of service? So then we'd earn less profit sharing?

I'm not trying to be a jerk, just pointing out that there are many unforseen consequences of these ideas. In my opinion, best to leave it as a percentage of yearly flight pay. Don't go devaluing our other benefits like sick bank and vacation that we fought hard for!!

​​​​​​​Credit to Motch for suggesting the proper path: a resolution at your next council meeting.

Well, that is the question. When does someone “create revenue”. Is it actually turning a wheel? Is it being full qualified & ready to fly?
Again, in your scenario- when the whale was retired, hundreds of pilots had to go to training… however, prior to that they had been fully qualified and ready to fly. But the reason they get PS is because it has been decided to treat them in one way vs someone who is still on Probation.
We CAN change that, just takes some effort. Hence why I write - “submit a resolution “

That is something I have NEVER advocated.
I feel it should be based on a time limit.. ie, time served (lol). Just feel that there is definitely a difference between Pilot A who got hired here in January and is still a probie vs Pilot B who has been here 20+ years and retired in Dec. (and wasn’t a SCAB!)

Interesting discussion. Sometimes the way it is, is because someone in the past HAD to make a call (at the time) and we have decided as a whole to continue with that Path.
Just food for thought. Someone I know was hired in early 2022. Been on the line since Sept.
Should he get a bit of the PS?
He is leaving for Delta next week!
Do we give him a few hundred bucks? It’s only a few hundred bucks….

Therein lies the problem. At what point do we take from Peter (no pun intended) to pay Paul?
Delta has always been an amazing airline, in my opinion. But where they have treated PS one way, they have also treated new hires a different way (ie, for the longest time the new hire had to pay for their own hotel room). Did not happen to me at CAL nor do I believe that it was happening at UAL back in the 2000’s/2010’s.

with all (else) that is going on right now with our union and ILC23, maybe this second isn’t the time for it. But once we HAVE our new UPA, someone who feels very passionate about this should try to change it.

Motch