UAL vs AA
12-28-2023, 06:22 AM
#131
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: Gear slinger
Posts: 2,899
Originally Posted by N4865G
So, I have class dates from both (AA first), but I still cannot make up my mind.
I browsed both forums here ad nauseam.
I have 13 years to go before I retire, want to fly the Airbus and maximize my time off.
No intention of flying the WB anymore.
For the 'living in base' argument I have a choice between PHL320 with AA, or ORD/SFO320 with UA.
The key benchmarking aspect would be the ability to stretch my days off in order to be able to visit my Family in Europe or travel across the US (kids are gone from home already).
Non-rev benefits seem similar between the two, yet with AA one can check-in 6 days prior and fix the seat, whereas UA is a gamble right up to the last moment before boarding.
The advantage of UA on the other hand, is the J class with LH, which would help with that 'commute' tremendously.
Seniority statistics seem to favor AA, but UA's plan for massive fleet expansion would offset this difference in theory.
On the other hand, strong reliance on WB international travel at UA vs dominant domestic position of AA favors the latter in the case of another black swan event (again, in theory).
Reserve rules are apparently better at AA (based on many posts here), but planning to live in base would, again, offset this problem.
AA has a much younger fleet of their Buses, but looking forward, UA is scheduled to receive a big chunk of their own 321XLRs.
I can hear a question about where I want to live: there are indeed stark differences between Chicago and Philadelphia, then the Bay Area.
We would be happy in all those places, I am sure, given the good quality of life the job can offer.
Would appreciate your thoughts.
I browsed both forums here ad nauseam.
I have 13 years to go before I retire, want to fly the Airbus and maximize my time off.
No intention of flying the WB anymore.
For the 'living in base' argument I have a choice between PHL320 with AA, or ORD/SFO320 with UA.
The key benchmarking aspect would be the ability to stretch my days off in order to be able to visit my Family in Europe or travel across the US (kids are gone from home already).
Non-rev benefits seem similar between the two, yet with AA one can check-in 6 days prior and fix the seat, whereas UA is a gamble right up to the last moment before boarding.
The advantage of UA on the other hand, is the J class with LH, which would help with that 'commute' tremendously.
Seniority statistics seem to favor AA, but UA's plan for massive fleet expansion would offset this difference in theory.
On the other hand, strong reliance on WB international travel at UA vs dominant domestic position of AA favors the latter in the case of another black swan event (again, in theory).
Reserve rules are apparently better at AA (based on many posts here), but planning to live in base would, again, offset this problem.
AA has a much younger fleet of their Buses, but looking forward, UA is scheduled to receive a big chunk of their own 321XLRs.
I can hear a question about where I want to live: there are indeed stark differences between Chicago and Philadelphia, then the Bay Area.
We would be happy in all those places, I am sure, given the good quality of life the job can offer.
Would appreciate your thoughts.
Family in Europe- toss out anything besides an east coast base. That leaves JFK, PHL, CLT for AA and EWR, DCA for UAL.
If you were willing to go EWR at UAL, which is right up the road from PHL, you'd have a lot of international options.
International non rev can be dicey when it's tourist season. You may get a seat but you could be in the very back, and possibly in the middle, and also against a bulkhead. Having the ability to jumpseat internationally on larger aircraft potentially opens the crew rest facilities to you (Captain discretion).
If your trip to Europe isn't frequent, or only to major destination cities, AA should be fine. If you're doing it regularly UAL may have better frequency to support that depending on location. AA does have the better commuter policy hands down.
I suggest you go to AA and try it out. If you still think you're missing out, go to UAL afterwards, but UAL has a fraction of the bus that AA has and bus type flying at AA goes to the 737 at UAL with the UAL bus usually doing 175 type flying at AA.
12-28-2023, 07:58 AM
#133
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 2,297
Originally Posted by chzbrgrparadise
Hey all, another brain boggler for the groupthink.
After lurking for an ungodly amount of time and reading several posts on this site providing anecdotal evidence of "moving to a base where you want to live" because commuting in my situation for 30+ years will take probably half of those years off my life on the back end, and any differences of "big 3" being a wash over a career... is it worth making the switch from AA to UA because I want to live in DEN?
Currently under a year at AA living in DFW (I moved here to live in base) and QoL work wise is fantastic. AA has been great to me, but Texas just isn't my cup of sweet tea. I'm under 30, single, not tied down anywhere, which has me trying to make a play for somewhere I've always wanted to live that has plentiful mountain outdoor activities. I grew up in SAN (which is hard to beat) but with median home prices in California being what they are, I don't see myself comfortably making it back there or LAX/SFO.
PHX was my next best bet, but at some point I'd like to give WB a try and not have to commute (long-term) ever again, which PHX being only a base for the Bus and no plans for anything else, eliminates that option, similar to SLC with DL. CLT seems like it could be a true affordable option, but I'm really not a fan of the east coast climate and being so far from my immediate family that's all still in CA.
So, in the opionion of y'all, would it be absolutely crazy to give up the potential top 100ish retirement number and already close to 2000 below me at AA to start over at UA just to live in DEN?
After lurking for an ungodly amount of time and reading several posts on this site providing anecdotal evidence of "moving to a base where you want to live" because commuting in my situation for 30+ years will take probably half of those years off my life on the back end, and any differences of "big 3" being a wash over a career... is it worth making the switch from AA to UA because I want to live in DEN?
Currently under a year at AA living in DFW (I moved here to live in base) and QoL work wise is fantastic. AA has been great to me, but Texas just isn't my cup of sweet tea. I'm under 30, single, not tied down anywhere, which has me trying to make a play for somewhere I've always wanted to live that has plentiful mountain outdoor activities. I grew up in SAN (which is hard to beat) but with median home prices in California being what they are, I don't see myself comfortably making it back there or LAX/SFO.
PHX was my next best bet, but at some point I'd like to give WB a try and not have to commute (long-term) ever again, which PHX being only a base for the Bus and no plans for anything else, eliminates that option, similar to SLC with DL. CLT seems like it could be a true affordable option, but I'm really not a fan of the east coast climate and being so far from my immediate family that's all still in CA.
So, in the opionion of y'all, would it be absolutely crazy to give up the potential top 100ish retirement number and already close to 2000 below me at AA to start over at UA just to live in DEN?
Another option is move to a different AA base. There is way more to the airline than DFW. Lots of pilots move there, some love it, most like it or tolerate it. Bottom line, yes jump ship and move to DEN, or stay and move away from DFW.
12-28-2023, 11:53 AM
#134
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,219
if the DFW area isn't someone's cup of tea, AA has other bases that could be a nice QOL.
https://media1.tenor.com/m/vQuYlpbaO...boca-vista.gif
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12-30-2023, 06:17 PM
#135
off weekends (if Reserve)
Joined APC: May 2023
Posts: 289
Originally Posted by PRS Guitars
That exists in Texas...well no income tax, but the property tax is super high.
12-30-2023, 08:08 PM
#136
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 699
Originally Posted by 11atsomto
aaaaaa maybe higher than Colorado (I'll defer to you) but still a tiny fraction compared to most North Eastern states like NY, NJ or CT.....
1 Hawaii 0.28% $615,300 $606
2 Alabama 0.41% $142,700 $895
3 Colorado 0.51% $343,300 $1,113
4 Louisiana 0.55% $163,100 $1,187
5 DC 0.56% $601,500$1,221
6 South Carolina 0.57% $162,300 $1,238
7 Delaware 0.57% $251,100 $1,240
8 West Virginia 0.58% $119,600 $1,269
9 Nevada 0.60% $267,900 $1,310
10 Wyoming 0.61% $220,500 $1,319
11 Arkansas 0.62% $127,800 $1,358
12 Utah 0.63% $279,100 $1,362
13 Arizona 0.66% $225,500 $1,446
14 Idaho 0.69% $212,300 $1,492
15 Tennessee 0.71% $167,200 $1,548
16 California 0.76% $505,000 $1,644
17 New Mexico 0.80% $171,400 $1,740
18 Mississippi 0.81% $119,000 $1,751
19 Virginia 0.82% $273,100 $1,779
20 Montana 0.84% $230,600 $1,818
21 North Carolina 0.84% $172,500 $1,833
22 Indiana 0.85% $141,700 $1,853
23 Kentucky 0.86% $141,000 $1,866
24 Florida 0.89% $215,300 $1,934
25 Oklahoma 0.90% $136,800 $1,952
26 Georgia 0.92% $176,000 $2,006
27 Missouri 0.97% $157,200 $2,111
28 Oregon 0.97% $312,200 $2,116
29 North Dakota 0.98% $339,000 $2,138
30 Washington 0.98% $193,900 $2,134
31 Maryland 1.09% $314,800 $2,370
32 Minnesota 1.12% $223,900 $2,429
33 Alaska 1.19% $270,400 $2,599
34 Massachusetts 1.23% $381,600 $2,667
35 South Dakota 1.31% $167,100 $2,857
36 Maine 1.36% $190,400 $2,953
37 Kansas 1.41% $151,900 $3,060
38 Michigan 1.54% $154,900 $3,343
39 Ohio 1.56% $145,700 $3,390
40 Iowa 1.57% $147,800 $3,407
41 Pennsylvania 1.58% $180,200 $3,442
42 Rhode Island 1.63% $261,900 $3,548
43 New York 1.72% $313,700 $3,749
44 Nebraska 1.73% $155,800 $3,754
45 Texas 1.80% $172,500 $3,907
46 Wisconsin 1.85% $180,600 $4,027
47 Vermont 1.90% $227,700 $4,135
48 Connecticut 2.14% $275,400 $4,658
49 New Hampshire 2.18% $261,700 $4,738
50 Illinois 2.27% $194,500 $4,942
51 New Jersey 2.49% $335,600 $5,419
12-31-2023, 05:11 AM
#137
off weekends (if Reserve)
Joined APC: May 2023
Posts: 289
Originally Posted by dmeg13021
State Tax Rate Average Home Price Property Tax
43 New York 1.72% $313,700 $3,745
45 Texas 1.80% $172,500 $3,907
43 New York 1.72% $313,700 $3,745
45 Texas 1.80% $172,500 $3,907
12-31-2023, 05:27 AM
#138
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2011
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 847
Originally Posted by 11atsomto
I'm sure this is legit it had NJ on top.........I'll admit for Texas...I only have exp in Metro DFW or Metro Houston. If you compare that to anywhere driveable from all three NY Metro airports ( so I am kind of excluding Rochester and Elmira)...NY in my experience (all other things being equal) is probably 2.5 to 3 times more per year.
I hear the property tax vs income tax argument often especially with regard to TX vs other southern states.
Websites that compare cost of living between states usually use average or median incomes. For a family making $75k in gross household income $3,750 in income tax plus $1,500 in property taxes in Alabama is a lower overall burden compared to no income tax Texas. For a pilot making $550k paying $27,500 in state income tax the $7,000 (make it $12,000 in a McMansion) property tax is still far less.
Live anywhere you wish and pay for it but at pilot income levels it's absurd to suggest that even 50% reductions in property taxes make up for state income tax. They do not and the reduced SALT deduction further reduces the offset from lower federal taxes.
Last edited by tallpilot; 12-31-2023 at 05:38 AM.
12-31-2023, 05:39 AM
#139
off weekends (if Reserve)
Joined APC: May 2023
Posts: 289
Originally Posted by tallpilot
Live anywhere you wish and pay for it but at pilot income levels it's absurd to suggest that even 50% reductions in property taxes make up for state income tax.
12-31-2023, 06:12 AM
#140
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,504
Originally Posted by tallpilot
The I-95 corridor, Chicago and California take the cake for high cost of living partly due to housing prices and partly due to tax burden.
I hear the property tax vs income tax argument often especially with regard to TX vs other southern states.
Websites that compare cost of living between states usually use average or median incomes. For a family making $75k in gross household income $3,750 in income tax plus $1,500 in property taxes in Alabama is a lower overall burden compared to no income tax Texas. For a pilot making $550k paying $27,500 in state income tax the $7,000 (make it $12,000 in a McMansion) property tax is still far less.
Live anywhere you wish and pay for it but at pilot income levels it's absurd to suggest that even 50% reductions in property taxes make up for state income tax. They do not and the reduced SALT deduction further reduces the offset from lower federal taxes.
I hear the property tax vs income tax argument often especially with regard to TX vs other southern states.
Websites that compare cost of living between states usually use average or median incomes. For a family making $75k in gross household income $3,750 in income tax plus $1,500 in property taxes in Alabama is a lower overall burden compared to no income tax Texas. For a pilot making $550k paying $27,500 in state income tax the $7,000 (make it $12,000 in a McMansion) property tax is still far less.
Live anywhere you wish and pay for it but at pilot income levels it's absurd to suggest that even 50% reductions in property taxes make up for state income tax. They do not and the reduced SALT deduction further reduces the offset from lower federal taxes.
Originally Posted by 11atsomto
True Statement
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