Standards Meeting Notes
09-07-2025 | 05:17 PM
#31
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Joined: Jan 2024
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In particular they needed them in EWR and SFO, high cost of living, high index of frustration airports.
A senior WBFO (or even a very senior NBFO) could work the system and make something close to what a captain on reserve would make
United, under the previous contract, that allowed extensive (?unlinited) short calls and field standby. Many people avoided reserve at all costs.
UPA23 seemed to fix the problem, or fix it enough. Time probably helped as well as more people naturally came to a point in their life they wanted to upgrade.
09-07-2025 | 05:51 PM
#32
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Joined: Jan 2017
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75% of the answer is probably the covid retirements / massive hiring wave whiplash. United retired a huge group of senior captains and then needed a bunch of junior ones RIGHT NOW.
In particular they needed them in EWR and SFO, high cost of living, high index of frustration airports.
A senior WBFO (or even a very senior NBFO) could work the system and make something close to what a captain on reserve would make
United, under the previous contract, that allowed extensive (?unlinited) short calls and field standby. Many people avoided reserve at all costs.
UPA23 seemed to fix the problem, or fix it enough. Time probably helped as well as more people naturally came to a point in their life they wanted to upgrade.
In particular they needed them in EWR and SFO, high cost of living, high index of frustration airports.
A senior WBFO (or even a very senior NBFO) could work the system and make something close to what a captain on reserve would make
United, under the previous contract, that allowed extensive (?unlinited) short calls and field standby. Many people avoided reserve at all costs.
UPA23 seemed to fix the problem, or fix it enough. Time probably helped as well as more people naturally came to a point in their life they wanted to upgrade.
1. It happened really fast. People have lives, families, commitments, etc. and sometimes you put things off to accommodate those.
2. A year ago, if a 3-4 year FO upgraded, they’d be bottom of the CA list for a year with lousy schedules, Feb vacation and all that. If they upgrade now they slot in ahead of all the NH/Indoc guys and in many bases can walk right in at 60-70% on the CA list.
09-07-2025 | 09:22 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,508
Likes: 109
Originally Posted by mostpeople;[url=tel:3946756
3946756[/url]]Just curious, I am aware that new hires were being awarded NB CA in indoc - but why? Is there a sizable cadre of lifetime FOs or is there something else?
A WBFO, especially on the west coast can make the same amount of money and have 5 or more days off per month. Even a bad schedule is still better and more productive than the best NB schedule.
09-08-2025 | 01:29 AM
#35
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Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 649
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Clearly people were not bidding the WB FO slots OR the NB CA slots. I think the most accurate take I've heard or seen on this was that the reserve rules in general were so bad that nobody wanted to be on reserve, even on the WB. That has since changed with the limitation of SCs and elimination of FSB. It stands to reason that it was even worse w WB FO with RDOs, which is why there were so many vacancies.
As we know, post-contract, WB FO has gone senior. Between pay and reserve rule improvements, this is unsurprising.
Last edited by khergan; 09-08-2025 at 01:47 AM.
09-08-2025 | 05:09 AM
#36
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Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,657
Likes: 116
That’s the beauty of working for a company with a mixture flying types. Since what sucks and what doesn’t is purely subjective, there’s something for everyone. I think that anything that has me on duty between 0000-0600 sucks. Others think that NB does. Choices are nice, and for someone who avoids ANF at all cost, I’m glad we have such a large WB schedule that goes senior. Guys like me get artificial seniority from senior people chasing the international flying.
09-08-2025 | 06:25 AM
#37
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Joined: Nov 2015
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09-08-2025 | 06:29 AM
#38
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Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 481
Likes: 3
It's not that, it is their not so well hidden hope of the demise and failure of other airlines. Kirby even brags about it every time he does an interview. Karama is a B
09-08-2025 | 06:46 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,191
Likes: 161
You’re angry at the wrong team. Probably should redirect that energy somewhere else… or turn it into something positive like an app to another carrier before it’s too late
09-08-2025 | 07:02 AM
#40
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 949
Likes: 58
Just like you hope for the demise of Kirby/UA in about every other post..? kArMA iS a B!tCH rinse and repeat with you. He’s arrogant for sure - similar to how you come across. The difference is he’s the CEO of - for now - a very successful airline. Maybe focus on your CEO and giving him pointers from your laser-sharp mind. We all get it. Kirby sucks, UA sucks. Everything bad in the world came from DEI and your boy Kirby. Just be glad you don’t have to be part of a POS, virtue-signaling bunch like UA, and you can enjoy being part of the “fAAmily” 🤢🤣🤣🤣
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