When I was hired in 99', the average expected upgrade was around 2.5 years and there were guys junior to me in the right seat of the 747.

In any event, that was then, this is now and the seniority ****ing match is one that will battled out by the powers that be. It seems to me that due to our respective MECs inability to present a united front (pun intended), it will be eons before we ever see an ISL.

You must mean "Eons" till we see a JCBA. Without that, we will by no means "see" the SLI (ISL is you like) prior to the contract ratification per the standing Merger Policy.

That we know.

Junior UAL cap: Feb. '96/SFO 320.

Here's a question.
Since CAL DIDN'T go Bankrupt in 2002 and UAL DID then Why is it CAL believes that the UAL ALPA Pilots have to make Less and stay banded when the concept was a "forced Rape" during Bankruptcy?? Are the UAL ALPA pilots NOT to recover what they gave up since the airline UAL and CAL are now making money? And even though there is a "proposed" Merger all things are NOT necessarily equal As I see it. NOT until what was before LOST is now regained and Both Pilot groups are "Made whole" to start from a Level playing field. Am I wrong in this assumpton?? If I had pay taken AWAY and now It's returned and I am once again "restored" (in as much as one Can be restored at United) ONLY then would I be in a position to advance to the "Next Level"
For negotiating a joint contract (IMHO).. Because to accept a "Banding" program that was IMPOSED upon me seems to be Working from a defecit rather than a Level playing field. I could be mistaken, and If I am then might someone PLEASE correct my logic?
From where I sit, our Worthy colleagues from Continental Shouldn't have any Say in when or How the UAL pilots recover what they lost. ONLY that what was once Lost is recovered IN FULL! Then and ONLY THEN would Both groups be on "Par" to advance a Joint Bargaining agreement and the Single Labor Intergration. Not ONLY would this be logical for the pilots but for the other Labor Groups as well I believe. So would SOMEONE
Please tell my Why there is this petty Squabbling??. Because I don't UNDERSTAND!!!

Thank you all in advance for any Logic you might render on my behalf to advance my knowlege and Wisdom..

SoCal almost everything you said was a synopsis of what I had said. I agree with you that an arbitration board will eventually make a decision, just as was the the case in the USAir/Cactus merger. My point is that the arbitrators decision in that merger still has not been implemented five years after the deal was agreed to. It is like people buying a home in a depressed market, the buyers beat down the seller on price to something less than fair, only to find that they can't get a loan for the home because it won't appraise. The calls on this forum to staple an 11 year United pilot below a 3,4 or 5 year Continental one with fewer years on the property will not happen. If an arbitrator did make that decision, which I am certian they won't based on the new merger policy, it will be a long time before the merged list is accepted by the company. I think all of us involved will know whether the decision eventually rendered is fair or not. As has been said before, a fair decision is going to have just about everyone but a few at the very top, at least a little ****ed off.

Thank you.

Since it's 'topical'.....CAL's December Staffing "8-Ball's" for CA's:
B777: 12/1984
B757/767: 11/1995
B737: 05/2001

Coto....
If your talking about the clip below, you may want address the 'correct person' who 'wrote' it in response to you. Barking up the wrong tree if that in fact is what your refering too.....??

I don't think there has been one call to staple anyone. I think it is a very real possibility that furloughees will be below active pilots based on past mergers. Here at Delta we had 01 hires that had been furloughed twice placed below 07 new hires. How did that happen, you ask? because they used a ratioed integration based on equipment and a snapshot in time. Everyone ended up at their relative seniority. If you were halfway up either list premerger you ended about halfway up the post merger list. The same thing basically happened at US Air except the premerger US Air pilots were given a few hundred of the top slots because America West didn't have any widebodies. Then they just ratioed the rest of the list and when they got to the end they added the furloughees (remember no seat brought to the dance).

You might not like to hear it but you better prepare for the worse case scenario then be very happy if it comes out otherwise.

That's what I was getting at (or at least trying to), we won't see the merged seniority list any time soon because both MECs can't even agree on the basics to get us the JCBA. At the moment, I don't even care about the seniority lists because it won't mean squat unless JCBA is reached it protects everyone's future interests in the form of SCOPE.