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Old 05-03-2012 | 10:27 AM
  #161  
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Originally Posted by Ottolillienthal
We'll be chasing our tales for the next 30-50 years. This entire industry has alredy slid back 20 to 25 years in terms of pay, benefits, and quality of life.

This profession sucks, and we have management and their outsorucing schemes to thank for it. I am so ready to retire. Screw it. Time for my blue walmart greeter vest.
Let me preface this by saying that while I'm not always happy with my union, I am a pin wearing, card carrying, dues paying supporter.

Part of the reason that we have slid backwards, and by slid I mean fallen off a cliff, is that we are still using a playbook that was relevant in the 1950's and 60's. We haven't changed and adapted and have pretty much been getting our collective a$$'s handed to us since October 24, 1978 (look it up). Who here can name ALPA's chief economist? How about our
PR firm? K-Street firm? Labor law firm?

The suits from Harvard, et al, went to school, did their homework, and changed in response to the world around them. We quite simply, have not.
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Old 05-03-2012 | 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by DirectLawOnly
Let me preface this by saying that while I'm not always happy with my union, I am a pin wearing, card carrying, dues paying supporter.

Part of the reason that we have slid backwards, and by slid I mean fallen off a cliff, is that we are still using a playbook that was relevant in the 1950's and 60's. We haven't changed and adapted and have pretty much been getting our collective a$$'s handed to us since October 24, 1978 (look it up). Who here can name ALPA's chief economist? How about our
PR firm? K-Street firm? Labor law firm?

The suits from Harvard, et al, went to school, did their homework, and changed in response to the world around them. We quite simply, have not.
I agree 100 percent with everything you just wrote.

We're getting spanked by some college wiz kids from the chess club whose mommy and daddy wrote the checks for them to go to ivy league schools.

My dads union was much different than ALPA. They were a bunch of 8th grade educated pipe fitters and welders. No one ever crossed one of their picket lines. They had suits to deal with too in their management, but even their suits didn't cross the line.

I draw us back to where we need to go.....Both MEC's on the same page.
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Old 06-11-2012 | 04:33 AM
  #163  
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Originally Posted by Ottolillienthal
My dads union was much different than ALPA. They were a bunch of 8th grade educated pipe fitters and welders. No one ever crossed one of their picket lines. They had suits to deal with too in their management, but even their suits didn't cross the line.
During the time your dad's union was dealing with management, there were labor-friendly federal judges on the bench, appointed by presidents who owed their ability to be elected to the support of organized labor.

Now, in part to the way the middle class votes in national elections, we have a different group of people comprising the federal judiciary. They are the ones who are now interpreting the Wagner Act (in your father's case) and the Railway Labor Act (in our case) with a definite pro-management slant. The judgment against Delta's ALPA ten years ago and against United's MEC in 2008 would have never come about in your dad's day.

Think about that the next time you go to the ballot box. Pilots, especially, think they can be trade unionists and vote like they're upper management. Pick one or the other and live with the consequences.
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Old 06-11-2012 | 05:28 AM
  #164  
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I vote for the candidate who I think is best for the country.
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Old 06-11-2012 | 06:52 AM
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Just one man's humble opinion but, macro country issues far exceed micro pilot issues.
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Old 06-14-2012 | 05:22 AM
  #166  
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My parents and grandparents always voted their pocketbooks. That's what they understood. They didn't have 24-hour news cycles that boiled down the "macro" country issues into 30-second soundbites.

If anybody has a copy of Flying the Line, Vol. 2, handy, check the second-to-last paragraph of page 147.
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Old 06-14-2012 | 05:54 AM
  #167  
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Well that was then and this is now.
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Old 06-14-2012 | 03:22 PM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by guido15
Well that was then and this is now.
Yep, let's not learn from the past...
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Old 06-14-2012 | 04:06 PM
  #169  
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Or how about not repeating the failures of the past?
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Old 06-14-2012 | 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by guido15
Or how about not repeating the failures of the past?
That's what I was saying. (Reminder to self, write "sarcasm" next time...)
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