Pass Travel Survey
02-06-2011, 05:26 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 459
Originally Posted by SpecialTracking
Are they owned by CAL?
Chelsea Food Services is an airline catering company based at Continental Center I in Downtown Houston, Texas.[1] The company is a subsidiary of Continental Airlines, Inc., making it currently the only airline catering company to be operated in-house by a United States-based airline (previously, American Airlines operated its own catering company called Sky Chefs Inc, now known as LSG Sky Chefs).
02-06-2011, 05:41 PM
#44
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Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 67
Originally Posted by hjflyer
Chelsea is the catering division of Continental.
Chelsea supervisors as well as Continental supervisors receive the SA1 passes. A supervisor is basically anyone with 2 direct reports.
According to the pass survey, 82% of the respondents were against this. However, I believe SA1 passes are here to stay.
Here is what Smisek is going to say:
"We have to keep SA1 passes because our managers are the best in the business. It would be unfair to discontinue them"
Mark my words. I hope I am wrong, but this management, more than any other I have worked for, has no issue with having a class system. They continually do what they can to let you know where your place is and how little they value you, especially pilots and flight attendants.
Unfortunately, in my opinion, the Continental culture everyone talks about has been gone for at least 5 years.
Chelsea supervisors as well as Continental supervisors receive the SA1 passes. A supervisor is basically anyone with 2 direct reports.
According to the pass survey, 82% of the respondents were against this. However, I believe SA1 passes are here to stay.
Here is what Smisek is going to say:
"We have to keep SA1 passes because our managers are the best in the business. It would be unfair to discontinue them"
Mark my words. I hope I am wrong, but this management, more than any other I have worked for, has no issue with having a class system. They continually do what they can to let you know where your place is and how little they value you, especially pilots and flight attendants.
Unfortunately, in my opinion, the Continental culture everyone talks about has been gone for at least 5 years.
02-06-2011, 07:27 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: Cub Cap
Posts: 175
Originally Posted by clambakejoe
I'm sorry, but if you are 80 years old , with arthritis, trying to go to the Mayo clinic, do you really want to non-rev? Do you want to get stuck somewhere because you couldn't get on a flight. What about the active employee is trying to visit a seriously ill family member, or trying to commute to work. I respect the retired employees, for I will be one in 9 years. As a retiree, I would not expect nor want to displace a working employee if I opt to non-rev at all.
Just my two cents.
Just my two cents.
I would be careful with the argument that the passes are used for commuting. For one, the other employee groups truly resent the pilots ability to commute, from time to time they make a stink that this is pass abuse, (no business use of passes). That and with the attention commuting has gotten since Colgan, it isn't a good point to argue. The Achilles heel of pass policy is that the IRS wants to tax it if it is negotiated in the contract, there-go the managements view that you should be happy with whatever they give you.
If you are CAL you never had the higher priority for 25+ year retired employees, so if it is changed you lose nothing. However, the UAL guys have had this since day one, it is a concession for them. The 25+ working vs retired should be changed, unfortunately the UAL employee groups could not agree amongst themselves.
As you said, I expect that you will not use passes when you retire, as is the case with most of us. Capital One mileage is the way to go, you get positive space, any airline, any class and the agents are not snotty toward you.
02-06-2011, 07:50 PM
#46
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 67
Originally Posted by Baron50
My example was allegorical, a retiree certainly can't afford a health plan for the Mayo clinic.
I would be careful with the argument that the passes are used for commuting. For one, the other employee groups truly resent the pilots ability to commute, from time to time they make a stink that this is pass abuse, (no business use of passes). That and with the attention commuting has gotten since Colgan, it isn't a good point to argue. The Achilles heel of pass policy is that the IRS wants to tax it if it is negotiated in the contract, there-go the managements view that you should be happy with whatever they give you.
If you are CAL you never had the higher priority for 25+ year retired employees, so if it is changed you lose nothing. However, the UAL guys have had this since day one, it is a concession for them. The 25+ working vs retired should be changed, unfortunately the UAL employee groups could not agree amongst themselves.
As you said, I expect that you will not use passes when you retire, as is the case with most of us. Capital One mileage is the way to go, you get positive space, any airline, any class and the agents are not snotty toward you.
I would be careful with the argument that the passes are used for commuting. For one, the other employee groups truly resent the pilots ability to commute, from time to time they make a stink that this is pass abuse, (no business use of passes). That and with the attention commuting has gotten since Colgan, it isn't a good point to argue. The Achilles heel of pass policy is that the IRS wants to tax it if it is negotiated in the contract, there-go the managements view that you should be happy with whatever they give you.
If you are CAL you never had the higher priority for 25+ year retired employees, so if it is changed you lose nothing. However, the UAL guys have had this since day one, it is a concession for them. The 25+ working vs retired should be changed, unfortunately the UAL employee groups could not agree amongst themselves.
As you said, I expect that you will not use passes when you retire, as is the case with most of us. Capital One mileage is the way to go, you get positive space, any airline, any class and the agents are not snotty toward you.
02-06-2011, 07:51 PM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 239
Originally Posted by clambakejoe
I agree with you, regardless of the pass survey, I think the SA1 passes will stay regardless of how much the employees dislike them.
That may be what all of really think but I think you all would be better served keeping that to yourselves. If you do want to comment it should be along the lines of "If they institute this divisive policy there is going to be a revolt like they've never seen". I'm sure that is really how all of you feel...right? Then say so. You know they read this stuff here so the sound of resignation serves you no good purpose.
02-06-2011, 08:21 PM
#48
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 67
Originally Posted by boxer6
That may be what all of really think but I think you all would be better served keeping that to yourselves. If you do want to comment it should be along the lines of "If they institute this divisive policy there is going to be a revolt like they've never seen". I'm sure that is really how all of you feel...right? Then say so. You know they read this stuff here so the sound of resignation serves you no good purpose.
Unfortunately, they do as they please.
02-07-2011, 01:26 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: B777 Capt
Posts: 844
Originally Posted by Baron50
Lamb,
It's been awhile, but I see you have not changed.
So, a 22 year old ramp manager with six-months longevity, going to a skateboard contest, should ride ahead of an 38 year retired employee, who is now 80 years old, with arthritis, a PBGC pension, trying to get to Mayo clinic on a pass, because that is all that he can afford.
Your sensitivity is remarkable, life is really not about you. The other employees do not give a hoot about how age 60 affected you, get over it.
Your friend
It's been awhile, but I see you have not changed.
So, a 22 year old ramp manager with six-months longevity, going to a skateboard contest, should ride ahead of an 38 year retired employee, who is now 80 years old, with arthritis, a PBGC pension, trying to get to Mayo clinic on a pass, because that is all that he can afford.
Your sensitivity is remarkable, life is really not about you. The other employees do not give a hoot about how age 60 affected you, get over it.
Your friend
For your sob story about the PBGC, no other employee cares what you are doing to pay the bills in retirement just like you say they don't care about Age 65. If you didn't manage those millions of dollars in earnings over the years dont blame me. I or anyone else can not manage your finances for you. At some point in your life you may want to learn some personal responsibility.
UA was the only carrier that gave retirees higher ranking. It was a bad policy and hopefully it is getting fixed. Perhaps you can join ranks with Gallud, Glawe and Whiteford again to cobble together another lawsuit over this issue? You guys can perhaps cut a back room deal for more RJ's to try and get what you want, like you did in the past. Everyone knows you guys don't respect majority rule and I wouldn't expect you to start now.
When it comes down to the core issue. It is an active employee versus an insactive employee trying to get on a plane. Doesn't matter where or why they are traveling, the person currently working should go first. The retired person doesn't have a limited amount of days off or a set schedule like the active employee. For your jab at commuting that is a reach. What about the retired guys that travel back and forth between FL and hubs weekly to check on rental property? Isn't that business related?
L
02-07-2011, 06:25 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,882
Originally Posted by SoCalGuy
Not really a surprise, just do the numbers.
If you'd look, there were 60K+ participants in that 'Whiskey Delta' survey. The ratio of "worker-bee's" to "supervisor/mgt types" in the combine company would greatly favor the 'lowly worker'. You, I, and just about everyone else w/o the supervisor status (SA1 in CAL speak) said "heck NO".....surprising??
Think again.
Eitherway, that $h1T's gotta go.
If you'd look, there were 60K+ participants in that 'Whiskey Delta' survey. The ratio of "worker-bee's" to "supervisor/mgt types" in the combine company would greatly favor the 'lowly worker'. You, I, and just about everyone else w/o the supervisor status (SA1 in CAL speak) said "heck NO".....surprising??
Think again.
Eitherway, that $h1T's gotta go.
It has been like that here at CAL for a long time. We have it drilled into us in not so subtle ways and we have come to accept it here. I look at gate agents and the way they buy or fall for whatever management says like it is the Gospel delivered from on high and the rest of us are just trouble makers. So, I do think the company was surprised that the results were as LOPSIDED as they were in that category. Everything else was more evenly split as was alluded to in the opening remarks about the results.
But you and I are on the same page, my friend.
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