thor2j

The next recall will be from the UAL side. As soon as a bid comes out that has vacancies the UAL guys will be coming.

skippy

well, when TK ramps up, we'll know it's coming.

APC225

Yes. I'm pretty sure that's a given in the transition agreement. All CAL pilots have been recalled. The agreement states UAL pilots will come before any new hiring. Therefore vacancies=UAL recalls.

The problem is, unfortunately, if the company manipulates the block hours to intentionally avoid any vacancies. This would be for one of two reasons I think.

First, because the bean counters get spun about a pilot flying at UAL, then flying at CAL, the flying back at UAL/CAL. Training cycles, who knows what. Whatever it is, it'll just be an excuse.

Second, and more likely to anyone familiar with CAL corporate culture, they will be held hostage in contract negotiations. CAL turned down JV flying a few years ago and, boom, sorry guys, 147 are furloughed. That put CAL understaffed and the fun began with 90-hour lines, no more than 12 days off per month if you're less than 50% in your seat, and the abuse of reserves that is hard to imagine if you haven't lived through it.

Coto Pilot

"The agreement states UAL pilots will come before any new hiring. Therefore vacancies=UAL recalls." Unfortunately, if the vacancies occur at Continental, they aren't recalls, they are new hires of furloughed United pilots.

Regularguy

"they aren't recalls, they are new hires of furloughed United pilots."

Just goes to show many really don't know what the agreement says. They are not "new hires!" They will get their pay based on their UAL seniority and, correct me if I'm wrong, if they were done with probation at UAL they are NOT ON PROBATION at CAL.

kc135driver

You are correct except that it is a new hire, pay protected to what you last made at UAL. These will not be "recalls" unless the list is merged, plain and simple. In fact in some ways, it is worse than actually being recalled back to UAL for the following pitfalls:

1) If trans agreement expires, you get to take another 50% pay cut to CAL 1st pay.
2) You are frozen in a domicile you were never based before, getting to commute to reserve for what 2 years, with no chance of getting to a UAL base.
3) No UAL longevity carries over, ie newhire vacation, SL, etc. etc.
3a) Will any accrued CAL seniority be counted once SLI is over?
4) Your pay will not go up until we either get a new contract or your new CAL rate exceeds your last UAL rate (which is like 5 years for me, oh and by the way, this is what I was making back in 2000)
5) And worse yet, you have to buy new uniforms

Can we see why somebody might leave the CAL side and go to UAL once officially recalled. Don't get me wrong, better than working at Walmart, but IMHO a royal disservice by our MEC. We should have gotten something better. Of course we 2172/1450 are used to second tier choices such as uh, zero $ from the bond, miniscule shares of stock post bk, and having our MEC pay insurance in lieu of a job.

KC

Fool Me Twice

This sucks worse than the current job market! How many T-Shirts do we need before we have paid our dues?

Coto Pilot

Spot On again KC, seem to be a lot here who don't get it. I was hired over 11 years ago and except for taking my United pay to Continental and insurance coverage from day one, I would be a new hire working for the same company.

leftcoast

Coto, KC, et al--this is frustrating in the extreme. I know--understatement.

Did MEC chair Morse have anything to say on her webcast beyond the usual lip-service to furloughees?--"we want them back, blah, blah, blah..." I didn't get to watch it.

If I were running staffing and were concerned with people taking the CAL job and then leaving for a UAL recall--I would call back some slight overage to the UAL side to keep staffing healthy, then call whatever was needed to the CAL side. This would allow CAL to get utility out of the tng for the UAL hires as well as have the UAL side adequately staffed.

APC225

I guess it's a matter of semantics. They are going to have to go through indoc and a full training course and in this sense they'll be new hires. But they won't be on probation, will have a different wage rate than a CAL new hire, and have full medical benefits from day one, none of which reflects a new hire--thankfully!

It seems to raise more complications than they thought of at the time they signed the transition agreement. But that's what happens when you're in a rush. CAL pilots signed contract '02 in a rush and have paid dearly for it ever since. The company got the transition agreement in a rush to please Wall Street to try make everyone feel happy and they're going to have to live with it.

That's their problem, not ours. Just because it's going to cost them more training cycles, here then there, or more money because the UAL pilot has to go through a full course at CAL then go back to UAL to fill a vacancy there, too bad.