thor2j

Don't worry, already staffed for summer. Doubt they will ad anyone until they are need for summer 2012. Bid should be out in Jan 2012.

kc135driver

I think the MEC is so locked in on the contract as then end-all/be-all that they have lost sight of the bigger picture. It is not that we don't want a contract, on paper it does solve a lot of things, however, how many more months/years will this take? Not advocating a botched job, but there are things we can work on improving, especially as it relates to furloughees, instead of having this "laser" myopic focus on the second coming of C2K.

My impression from Wendy is ANYTHING furloughed related is wrapped up in contract negotiations and on hold. I can't help but thinking that this is the scenario we have laid out for ourselves. We are clearly just another bargaining chip on the table and nothing will happen until then. We are the hostages.

Hope it will be a good one, meanwhile, people have gone through their life savings and still on unemployment while we wait for all of our ills to be cured. I think the contract will have some turds in it, and probably not live up to our expectations. Hope not, but that has been our track record over the last 10 years. Meanwhile, entire careers are vanishing before our eyes as weeks turn into months then into years.

Your last statement is exactly what a lot of us have been advocating on the UAL side since last year.

Anyway, I've rambled on enough, back to my medication-

Best wishes-

KC

Tony Nelson

Just say thanks but no thanks.

Regularguy

KC Said:

"and probably not live up to our expectations. "

I guess I have to ask, what are your expectations?

How can a contract be made which will stop furloughs or lay offs when the economy changes or the management screws up. "No furlough" clauses are worthless historically.

Also how can one change the fact in a seniority driven system of employment where one who was hired at or near the end of a long period of hiring are about the same age as those at the end? The results of which are some suffer the issues of being at the bottom and subject to layoffs, not because of their abilities or quality of work, but just because fate has drawn them a bad card compared to those of similar age hired earlier.

What do you want and how can a contract fix it? I'm sorry for the suffering and insecurities of the Jr. in this business or the fate of being subject to bad management or short sited union leadership. What are your solutions to fix these? After almost 35 years of it I sure have none, except to choose a career and life path one can live out with satisfaction and peace of mind.

kc135driver

Regularguy-

You bring up a lot of good points and I agree, nothing can really prevent furloughs in the face of another 9/11 or similar event. However, I'm not talking about a singular issue or event, but pattern subconsciously practiced locally and at national.

My issue is not preventing job losses or other economic downfall, but in how the effects are spread amongst the members. The mentality of it being acceptable for the most junior to give up more has been way overplayed for way too long. As an example, during the second furlough, the UAL MEC refused to consider negotiating for lower line values as a way to offset furloughs, as that would be seen as a pay cut for more senior (I know, I was on the teleconference call when the question came up). And then there was Prater making statements such we (I) have time to make up the loss of my pension while somebody else doesn't (hence we need to raise the retirement age DESPITE the membership overwhelmingly being against it. And then there was the RJ giveaway from PW. And then PBS scewed bidding to the advantage of the most senior. I could go on and on.

Basically, ALPA has done an abysmal job of representing me over the past 12 years, despite the $20,000 of dues and all of the kicking and screaming we have done (ala 2172.com). I think every double furloughee would agree, we are NOT junior newhires any more, haven't been for a very long long time. You can't keep shifting a disproportionate amount of the concessions/losses on us and then reward yourself with the advantages (like all of us who got zero $ from the bond because we were one week away from recall - as opposed to DL).

My expectations are full longevity (like DL), credit given for YOS during SLI and equal distribution of any new stock amongst ALL pilots (like DL), on or off property.

Perhaps the bigger question is maybe ALPA or any other union is truly incapable of any or all of these things and none of us have realized? If this is true, why should we still have a union, especially ALPA? What is the point? Maybe the days of unionism in airlines is really over. Personally, I'd start by firing ALPA, why not, they've left my group out in the rain way too many times. Time to move on.

Peace-

KC