Wendy Morse Could Be Ousted Monday
04-10-2011 | 09:09 AM
#13
Indian Takeout Driver
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,566
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From: FAR part 347 (91+121+135)
There was a time when the United ALPA was the model of how a pilot union should function.... hell, it was ALPA! Now, the new "softer and gentler" United ALPA is about as tough as some of the 3rd rate Miami 36th street ACMI unions.... sad.
04-10-2011 | 11:22 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 963
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From: What day is it?
"If they replace the current MEC with the imbecile that presided over the MEC when the injunction was imposed, I'm turning in my ALPA wings in disgust! We’ll never get the contract we deserve with idiotic antics like this. God Help us all!"
However, don't make the CAL guys any models of behavior. Their EWR council leaders are the one(s) who lobbed publicly the bombs about banding and threatening the UAL guys with stonewalling the contract negotiations to get what they want.
The number one mistake both the UAL and CAL MECs made was to not to agree together to not fly any routes, domiciles or airplanes until a joint contract and integration was complete. So can anyone blame a management who takes advantage of the split by flying UAL airplanes and crews out of EWR, domicile a CAL airplane in a UAL domicile which had the same airplane, fly UAL airplanes out of IAH on new routes and more...
Gentlemen and Ladies of the two MECS, you messed up by fighting at the beginning.
But, back to the original statement. When I heard this rumor I felt the same, drop out of ALPA! Start my own union! Personally I'm tired of all this (yes I have served in ALPA positions so don't lecture me about getting involved) and I will not support Wallach or any of his cronies. Period!
Rumor also has it that DAL pilot pay scale is still on the Table? If this is true don't make the same mistake we made in 1985, when the UAL MEC rejected the AMR contract because it had a two tiered (b scale) which we ended up with any way after a bitter strike.
Get on with it, the contract and the integration!
However, don't make the CAL guys any models of behavior. Their EWR council leaders are the one(s) who lobbed publicly the bombs about banding and threatening the UAL guys with stonewalling the contract negotiations to get what they want.
The number one mistake both the UAL and CAL MECs made was to not to agree together to not fly any routes, domiciles or airplanes until a joint contract and integration was complete. So can anyone blame a management who takes advantage of the split by flying UAL airplanes and crews out of EWR, domicile a CAL airplane in a UAL domicile which had the same airplane, fly UAL airplanes out of IAH on new routes and more...
Gentlemen and Ladies of the two MECS, you messed up by fighting at the beginning.
But, back to the original statement. When I heard this rumor I felt the same, drop out of ALPA! Start my own union! Personally I'm tired of all this (yes I have served in ALPA positions so don't lecture me about getting involved) and I will not support Wallach or any of his cronies. Period!
Rumor also has it that DAL pilot pay scale is still on the Table? If this is true don't make the same mistake we made in 1985, when the UAL MEC rejected the AMR contract because it had a two tiered (b scale) which we ended up with any way after a bitter strike.
Get on with it, the contract and the integration!
04-10-2011 | 11:41 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,750
Likes: 0
From: 737 CA
"If they replace the current MEC with the imbecile that presided over the MEC when the injunction was imposed, I'm turning in my ALPA wings in disgust! We’ll never get the contract we deserve with idiotic antics like this. God Help us all!"
However, don't make the CAL guys any models of behavior. Their EWR council leaders are the one(s) who lobbed publicly the bombs about banding and threatening the UAL guys with stonewalling the contract negotiations to get what they want.
The number one mistake both the UAL and CAL MECs made was to not to agree together to not fly any routes, domiciles or airplanes until a joint contract and integration was complete. So can anyone blame a management who takes advantage of the split by flying UAL airplanes and crews out of EWR, domicile a CAL airplane in a UAL domicile which had the same airplane, fly UAL airplanes out of IAH on new routes and more...
Gentlemen and Ladies of the two MECS, you messed up by fighting at the beginning.
But, back to the original statement. When I heard this rumor I felt the same, drop out of ALPA! Start my own union! Personally I'm tired of all this (yes I have served in ALPA positions so don't lecture me about getting involved) and I will not support Wallach or any of his cronies. Period!
Rumor also has it that DAL pilot pay scale is still on the Table? If this is true don't make the same mistake we made in 1985, when the UAL MEC rejected the AMR contract because it had a two tiered (b scale) which we ended up with any way after a bitter strike.
Get on with it, the contract and the integration!
However, don't make the CAL guys any models of behavior. Their EWR council leaders are the one(s) who lobbed publicly the bombs about banding and threatening the UAL guys with stonewalling the contract negotiations to get what they want.
The number one mistake both the UAL and CAL MECs made was to not to agree together to not fly any routes, domiciles or airplanes until a joint contract and integration was complete. So can anyone blame a management who takes advantage of the split by flying UAL airplanes and crews out of EWR, domicile a CAL airplane in a UAL domicile which had the same airplane, fly UAL airplanes out of IAH on new routes and more...
Gentlemen and Ladies of the two MECS, you messed up by fighting at the beginning.
But, back to the original statement. When I heard this rumor I felt the same, drop out of ALPA! Start my own union! Personally I'm tired of all this (yes I have served in ALPA positions so don't lecture me about getting involved) and I will not support Wallach or any of his cronies. Period!
Rumor also has it that DAL pilot pay scale is still on the Table? If this is true don't make the same mistake we made in 1985, when the UAL MEC rejected the AMR contract because it had a two tiered (b scale) which we ended up with any way after a bitter strike.
Get on with it, the contract and the integration!
04-10-2011 | 12:41 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,559
Likes: 0
From: A Nobody
jsled:
I was there at the MEC level in 1985, and was privy to the conversations about the offer. The reason why the AMR contract was turned down can be summed up in the statement of the MEC Chair, Roger Hall, "we may end up with a "b-scale" but they will have to pay for it if they want it..."
In fact it was considered and turned down for two reasons:
1. It would not work. UAL would have been about 800 pilots short due to the better work rules in the AMR contract.
2. Second the "b-scale" became the focus of the 1985 negotiations and the MEC, led by Roger Hall, at the time would not go down in history as selling out the un-hired/furloughed pilots at the time.
Additionally you might remember at the time UAL already had a "b-scale" in place from the 1981 contract where the MEC Chair, John Ferg, sold out the furloughees with permanent "b-scale" S/O pay rates, which is credited with leading the way for AMR's "b-scale." In 1985 Roger Hall determined he would not be the author of another such incident even though it was inevitable.
As far as the DL scales go today, if pilots want more than DAL then stop pointing a finger at how "good" things are over at DAL.
I was there at the MEC level in 1985, and was privy to the conversations about the offer. The reason why the AMR contract was turned down can be summed up in the statement of the MEC Chair, Roger Hall, "we may end up with a "b-scale" but they will have to pay for it if they want it..."
In fact it was considered and turned down for two reasons:
1. It would not work. UAL would have been about 800 pilots short due to the better work rules in the AMR contract.
2. Second the "b-scale" became the focus of the 1985 negotiations and the MEC, led by Roger Hall, at the time would not go down in history as selling out the un-hired/furloughed pilots at the time.
Additionally you might remember at the time UAL already had a "b-scale" in place from the 1981 contract where the MEC Chair, John Ferg, sold out the furloughees with permanent "b-scale" S/O pay rates, which is credited with leading the way for AMR's "b-scale." In 1985 Roger Hall determined he would not be the author of another such incident even though it was inevitable.
As far as the DL scales go today, if pilots want more than DAL then stop pointing a finger at how "good" things are over at DAL.
04-10-2011 | 12:51 PM
#19
Indian Takeout Driver
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,566
Likes: 0
From: FAR part 347 (91+121+135)
Reminds me of all the talk about how good Southwest is. Fact is, everyone talking about how good Southwest or Fedex are today are missing the whole picture and undervaluing themselves greatly.
The reason Southwest looks so good today is the same reason an ugly fat girl at the end of the bar begins to look good after a long night of drinking.. The profession has been so beat up over the years with the massive growth of "regionals" and contract concession after contract concession that those who run the show (managers) have effectively managed to reset the "0 point" such that we consider $175/hr with FAR's as work rules to be "good" captains pay.. Managers love this re-allignment, just the same way oil companies love that the American public considers $3/gallon gas "cheap" now.. it's all about incrementalism..
In fact, if you take inflation, the rapid growth of salaries in other professions and cost of retirement all into account, this profession is in the worse shape it's been in since the 1930's when unions first came into being.
04-10-2011 | 04:16 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,415
Likes: 0
From: B-777 left
Sorry been here for 26 years and I can't remember United Alpa ever being a model of how a pilot union should be run.
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