.. just saying that the history of the union is filled with accomplishments .. can't speak for the recent past.. Wasn't contract 2000 a good contract?

 

It was, but how long did it last? There has been no good news for the pilots (or any other employee group) since 911. This company may very well shrink more as well. I hope not, time will tell.

 

Sweet. Most important contract of my career and DAL BK sweetener is the best I will do. Really hope the vast majority of United guys don't feel this way like we've been hearing on CAL side for an awful while. If so then the sad reality is I've heard way tougher talk from a bunch of '83 Scabs then guys with the treasured ALPA star pin.

 

according to my twice furloughed friend .. the "senior" guys at UAL have all but lost any fight in them.. I'm afraid this guy represents the consensus.

 

I thought your first post was a teenager who read wikipedia, your second post is closer to the truth. When the UAL Management realized the man-power implications of the AMR contract, they said "Well we didn't mean word for word."

I don't know if you were there or not. Or, you are just another keyboard pontificator, but the fact is, the B-scale was always on the table by ALPA. The key element that was not negotiable was a B scale that would destroy the incumbent rates when the Killer B's became a majority vote. ALPA's proposals always guaranteed that the new hires would reach the A-scale before they became a destructive political faction. Dick Ferris refused a last minute offer for a 7 year B-scale because he knew it would not have the intended result of destroying ALPA.

As it turned out the B-Scalers were quick studies of MEC politics and they forced the end of the two tier pay scale in the very next contract. That is, until the RJ, when many former B-Scalers fell for another of management's destructive schemes.

Your comment about Rodger Hall is off the mark, the line pilots voted to fight this battle, no small feat considering the CAL Strike, Patco Loss and a hostile Republican administration. Hall would have settled earlier except for a faction of the MEC that kept his feet to the fire. He ultimately did a superb job leading us through those extraordinary times. The only unsettled issue when the strike started was the B-Scale. Many strikers who were near retirement unselfishly fought this battle knowing they had nothing to gain and possibly a lot to lose.

Your reference to the "1981 contract realignment" of pay as a B-Scale is ludicrous. The pilots of the day did not think a 747 S/O should make more than a 737 Captain, plain and simple. This was an ALPA instigated pay scale adjustment before anyone ever heard of the B scale. I will admit, no one will ever convince a "79" hire that there was nothing nefarious about it.

Your comment on DAL is absolutely correct, good for you, but leave the history lessons to us old duffers who wrote it.

Baron

 

Baron50:

You're a bit arrogant on this one. I will only tell you this I was there, at every MEC meeting, worked directly with Roger Hall for over a year right up to the strike (and after on two major committees). I was even a part of the infamous Hawaii MEC meeting (if that rings a bell in your historic memory).

Needless to say without any further info revealed I had the inside skinny on the subject and the information. I also believe I still have much of it stored in boxes in my basement. So be careful about your facts they are a bit screwed.

Take it from one who actually wrote the history.

Oh and this statement is flat out wrong! "but the fact is, the B-scale was always on the table by ALPA." It was not even presented by the company until after the Denver MEC when the response to the across the contract cuts was first made!

May I ask Baron if you have done a bunch of fishing in Alaska? I might know who you are???? Dave M???

 

Baron50:

You might also remember the UAL pilots did not have membership ratification until well after the strike of 1985. So they could only vote by direction to their LEC who voted on their behalf. Please keep history correct in your old age!

 

Baron50:

""Well we didn't mean word for word."

They did mean it word for word and when confronted with the manpower issue they knew there would be a transition period of adjustment between the two contracts. And this was straight from the man himself.

And the S/O re-alignment was mentioned by the AMR management as a, "see what UAL pilots did..."

It was not a "re-alignment it was as ell out because it only applied to those furloughed (1978/79 hires) and any future new-hire on the property while employed S/Os retained their pay scales on DC-10 and 747. as a teenager would say, "dude you sold em out with a b-scale!"

 

Well if your twice furloughed friend told you that then it must be true, geez.

 

Sorry for the position your 2x furloughed friend is in, but he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. United management would be shocked if they knew the true sentiment on the line.