"avoid like the plague"
08-10-2011 | 05:28 PM
#31
(retired)
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 422
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From: Old, retired, healthy, debt-free, liquid
Gordon was just the cheerleader... Greg was the brains... He knew that if you took care of the employees in a service business, eg "airlines", it would be a better return on investment than any capital outlay. After Greg left things started heading in the wrong direction. At least that is my recollection of the situation.
That dispute made it's way to the board and, unfortunately, Mr. Brenneman was on the losing side of the argument at the board level. Senior executive teams usually require loyalty and a common approach...that was the end of the team.
Last edited by Old UCAL CA; 08-10-2011 at 05:50 PM.
08-10-2011 | 05:35 PM
#32
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 120
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From: Aeronca Champ
There was a disagreement at the senior officer level about the most judicious use of available cash approaching a "softening" period (late 1990's/2000).
That dispute made it's way to the board and, unfortunately, Mr. Brenneman was on the losing side of the argument at the board level. Senior executive teams usually require loyalty and a common approach..that was the end of the team.
That dispute made it's way to the board and, unfortunately, Mr. Brenneman was on the losing side of the argument at the board level. Senior executive teams usually require loyalty and a common approach..that was the end of the team.
08-10-2011 | 05:42 PM
#33
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 142
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From: Line Pilot
Yes, just one...IMHO.
You could have Herb Kelleher, Gordon Bethune, and Greg Brenneman running this new United and there would still be a significant group of employees who would whine about it.
For the last 35 years there have only been two US carriers in the "legacy" category that have arguably held the best US reputation...Delta for about 20 years and Continental the next 15. United has always been big or one of the biggest, but it has rarely been viewed as the best from an industry standpoint.
The three most charismatic, smart, visionary and with the necessary gravitas, individuals I've seen in this business could not bring the new United to a best category unless they seriously started getting rid of old dinosaurs that do not have the "best" DNA as part of their genetics. This particular type of DNA doesn't magically appear based upon contracts or management. This type of DNA comes from adult personal maturity and professionalism. It certainly doesn't arise from the notion that being the "biggest" automatically makes you the "best."
God as chief couldn't get the job done unless he performed a miracle. A change at the top would not do a thing. The new United is 87,000 employees...87,000! The dinosaurs are going to have to become extinct. Old lizards aren't good for much of anything anyway except boots.
Just in case you were wondering...Truman was president when I was born. I qualify for the category.
You could have Herb Kelleher, Gordon Bethune, and Greg Brenneman running this new United and there would still be a significant group of employees who would whine about it.
For the last 35 years there have only been two US carriers in the "legacy" category that have arguably held the best US reputation...Delta for about 20 years and Continental the next 15. United has always been big or one of the biggest, but it has rarely been viewed as the best from an industry standpoint.
The three most charismatic, smart, visionary and with the necessary gravitas, individuals I've seen in this business could not bring the new United to a best category unless they seriously started getting rid of old dinosaurs that do not have the "best" DNA as part of their genetics. This particular type of DNA doesn't magically appear based upon contracts or management. This type of DNA comes from adult personal maturity and professionalism. It certainly doesn't arise from the notion that being the "biggest" automatically makes you the "best."
God as chief couldn't get the job done unless he performed a miracle. A change at the top would not do a thing. The new United is 87,000 employees...87,000! The dinosaurs are going to have to become extinct. Old lizards aren't good for much of anything anyway except boots.
Just in case you were wondering...Truman was president when I was born. I qualify for the category.
It is going to take a lot of time and effort by everyone from the top down to change the mentality and behavior at a machine this large.
Kind of like our government! Oh , the irony.
I wish I would have been a business-school corporate type, they seem to do alright no matter what.
08-11-2011 | 04:28 AM
#34
(retired)
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 422
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From: Old, retired, healthy, debt-free, liquid
At 87,000 employees, it's big and cumbersome enough. Factor in the "bad juju," it becomes near untenable. There's no sense in delaying what will likely be an employee "winnowing" process (also known as the good kind of "revolving door" of change, "out with the old, in with the new," etc.) over the next several years.
I haven't decided just when I will "winnow" yet. God knows I'm old enough.
08-11-2011 | 09:15 AM
#35
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,248
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From: 767A (Ret)
Nostalgia
08-11-2011 | 10:06 AM
#36
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 329
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From: Capt. B737
It is going to take a lot of time and effort by everyone from the top down to change the mentality and behavior at a machine this large.
Kind of like our government! Oh , the irony.
Kind of like our government! Oh , the irony.
Bingo! Give them the tools and procedures to be the "best." If they refuse, won't, or can't after a few tries, show'em the door.
AND, more to point.....I believe pilots define tools and procedures as an industry leading contract. Give me something to work with other than a CEO's middle finger and apologies from the CPO. I guarantee the goodwill will nearly pay for the contract cost.
08-11-2011 | 06:58 PM
#37
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 142
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From: Line Pilot
Yes...how ironic. Both are led by Harvard elitist.
How about this. "Give them the tools and procedures to be the best, and then get the ******* out of the way!"
AND, more to point.....I believe pilots define tools and procedures as an industry leading contract. Give me something to work with other than a CEO's middle finger and apologies from the CPO. I guarantee the goodwill will nearly pay for the contract cost.
How about this. "Give them the tools and procedures to be the best, and then get the ******* out of the way!"
AND, more to point.....I believe pilots define tools and procedures as an industry leading contract. Give me something to work with other than a CEO's middle finger and apologies from the CPO. I guarantee the goodwill will nearly pay for the contract cost.
08-16-2011 | 06:14 AM
#38
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Joined: Aug 2008
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From: 787 Captain
It has been a very obvious degradation of quality within the last two months... whatever the cause. Our service, morale and maintenance in the last decade were not even close to what is happening now.
Take it easy, its not a dig at the pilots. Im sure you werent happy working for a such a mess over the last decade just as CAL pilots werent happy working for the mess before that.
I was attempting to get on a flight to a tropical destination last week. Last flight of the day. There were connecting passengers from Frankfurt who were running down the concourse over ten minutes before departure. The hugged each other, out of breath, and high fived as they handed their tickets to the agent. The agent denied them boarding and gave their seats to some standbys that were standing there at the gate. It was very tense. I was aware of their connection before the Franfurt flight even landed, so I know the gate was aware. That never used to happen.
Take it easy, its not a dig at the pilots. Im sure you werent happy working for a such a mess over the last decade just as CAL pilots werent happy working for the mess before that.
I was attempting to get on a flight to a tropical destination last week. Last flight of the day. There were connecting passengers from Frankfurt who were running down the concourse over ten minutes before departure. The hugged each other, out of breath, and high fived as they handed their tickets to the agent. The agent denied them boarding and gave their seats to some standbys that were standing there at the gate. It was very tense. I was aware of their connection before the Franfurt flight even landed, so I know the gate was aware. That never used to happen.
08-16-2011 | 08:00 AM
#39
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Joined: Mar 2006
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My wife and I just did a trip to Cancun on CAL passes (IAD-IAH-CUN r/t). From my perspective, the CAL S/A process at the gate was WAY worse than UAL. Maybe I feel that way because it's 'different' than what I'm used to?? At any rate, the lack of flexibility by the csr was troubling. They all seemed to be hamstrung by the info in the computer.... UAL csr's (to me) seem more agile and proactive when it comes to S/A's. I'm sure my sample size is too small to draw any real conclusions.
I'm playing with you
08-16-2011 | 05:37 PM
#40
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 120
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From: Aeronca Champ
I have extensive experience s/a on both CAL and UAL as an employee and with buddy pass riders ... And I would say United is much better at treating their traveling employees and companion riders!
