APC225

If the majors can't shield themselves from liability by outsourcing, it removes a major cost incentive to outsource.

Published: Sept. 28, 2011 at 5:09 PM

BUFFALO, N.Y., Sept. 28 (UPI) -- A federal judge has ordered Continental Airlines to give the families of those killed in a crash near Buffalo, N.Y., information on pilot training.

Lawyers for the families say the information will help them answer questions like whether pilots for feeder airlines receive less pay and less training than those for national carriers, The Buffalo News reported.

The crash of Continental Connections Flight 3407 in Clarence Center, N.Y., in February 2009 killed 49 people on the plane and one on the ground. The plane was owned and operated by Colgan Air.

"We suspect the safety of regional carriers is less than national carriers," Hugh M. Russ III, a lawyer for several families, said Tuesday. "The documentation we will receive under this order should shed some light on that issue."

Federal investigators have blamed the crash on pilot error.

U.S. District Judge William M. Skretny ruled in favor of the plaintiffs this week.

SoCalGuy

If this article is in it's entirety, looks like another potential "media inaccuracy".

How does CAL maintain, or have direct control of training records for Colgan Pilot's, and their training?? If Colgan is just dba as Continental Connection, existing on it's own Operating Certificate, they (Colgan) would be required to maintain their own training operation/records per being a Part 121 certificate holder (Just as Skywest is to DAL, or UAL). As far as I am aware, CAL does NOT have anything to do directly with Colgan's training, nor it's record keeping that would be involved with the Colgan Pilot Training.

In reading the above, if any lawyer would want such a thing, they may want to knock on a door that has "Colgan Air" written on it.

Explain??

flyingfarmer

It's simple and intentional by the attorney... Follow the money... Aircraft said Continental... Must sue Continental... The ultimate result from the legal wrangling will be a settlement paid to the families by CAL or their insurance company and a settlement from Colgan as well.

iadfo

I can't imagine a judge finding CAL negligent as a result of outsourcing. After all, the FAA is the one who approved their training program and issued their operating certificate. "They" are the experts right? But who knows, it will probably be tied up in courts for years through appeals, supplying a source of income for the attourneys involved.

EWRflyr

Not negligent, but at least partially responsible despite what he said when testifying before Congress. If you contract with another airline to fly your passengers and you sell the ticket, that is just common sense.

SoCalGuy

In reading what you wrote, I believe your missing what I'm saying...

As per the article, The Federal Judge ordered Continental Airlines to turn over info on Pilot Training. I ask you, if CAL and Colgan have two separate Ops Cert's, what do you want to bet their Training Operation "could be" apples vs oranges?? Who knows, Colgan's training program could be closer to other operators not even mentioned. As far as CAL having any operational control, or direct record keeping of Colgan's Pilot Training Records beyond Colgan itself, doubt it. If that does happen to be the case, IE Colgan NOT having their record keeping online to that at which the Ops Spec/Cert implies, they (Colgan) have a lot to be worried about.

As far as CAL being "wiped free" of liability on the grounds that Colgan was "just a dba" figure w/ CAL's name painted on the tail.....CAL will have a lot of liability in this case one would think.....But I'm sure our fearless "leader" (term used beyond loosely), Jeff, would argue otherwise.....At least for the several yrs of trail that this case(s) will most likely serve.

FurloughedX2

Perhaps the Plaintiffs are feeling duped because they bought tickets from Continental Airlines and assumed their family members were in the hands of experienced pilots on big jets but instead, they're dead. Just sayin'.

APC225

The judge has granted them access to the training records for mainline CAL pilots. They already have Colgan's. The plaintiffs want to compare the training of pilots at the two airlines to [try to] prove an assertion that CAL knew the quality of training was lower at Colgan, outsourced the flying in part to save money on this training, and therefore can be held liable for the accident.

Insurance costs are astronomical due to accident liability. A big reason for outsourcing is to push these insurance costs somewhere else. If the plaintiffs prove their point and CAL is held liable then another reason for outsourcing goes away. This article is a little clearer:


BUFFALO, NY (WKBW) - Continental Airlines must hand over training and safety documents, a federal judge ruled Monday in the case over the crash of Continental Connections Flight 3407.

The families of the 50 victims who died in the crash are calling it a major victory.

Continental must hand over documents related to training procedures, salary structure and safety policies, said lead attorney for the families Daniel O. Rose.

"Our job in representing the families is to overcome those hurdles and to show Judge Skretny why those hurdles are without merit and that we should be able to get that discovery and those documents," said Rose.

A spokesperson for Continental Airlines declined comment.

Rose said Judge William Skretny's decision will help the trial move forward more quickly and could be finished by late next year.

The families hope the documents will prove their claim that regional carrier Colgan Air, which operated Flight 3407 on Continental's behalf, had lower training and safety standards than its parent airline.

"Some of this information can shed light on our claims that Colgan operated in a matter that elevated financial gain above concerns for passenger safety," Rose said.

Rose added that the families will ask Judge Skretny for a similar ruling as it relates to documents from Colgan Air.

APC225

"claims that Colgan operated in a matter that elevated financial gain above concerns for passenger safety."

Well, that just about sums it up for everyone.

"Continental must hand over documents related to training procedures, salary structure and safety policies"

Obviously, they can get salary structure off the APC website, but if they prove that salary has a connection to safety because it may attract higher time or better qualified pilots, then they may be able to create another doubt about the overall "value" of outsourcing.

The plaintiffs may be doing more to de-popularize outsourcing than ALPA has done for years. Everyone could win. Force the majors to actually own their regional partners, put pilots on the same seniority list, etc.

APC225

"A spokesperson for Continental Airlines declined comment."

Yea, they're going to have to think hard on this one. This could change the whole structure of the industry. The plaintiffs have to look no further than the statements from Colgan after the accident, and UCAL just this week regarding the U-ALPA lawsuit, to see a connection.

"We meet all FAA standards."

Worded differently, "we are not obligated to do anything more than the absolute minimum of what the FAA requires--anything more is a wasted expense."

Doesn't sound nearly as good, but it is essentially what they're saying.