Called to update contact info
12-24-2011 | 12:05 PM
#11
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Joined: Nov 2011
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From: EWR B737FO
UAL never bothered to check my contact information prior to recalling me after 5 years on furlough. This time around, I've only been on furlough for 2 1/2 years.
As I stated in my above post, I talked at length to the guy that called me. He said that he was a furloughee working at UAL and they had some slow time so they were directed to contact all furloughees and check to make sure that their information was up to date.
I give whomever at UAL kudos for being proactive on this matter.
As far as me getting a job offer at CAL, it looks like I'm going to miss the April cut by about 20 pilots. As of now, the plan is for CAL to shut down training for the summer and restart training in the fall. Of course this is a fluid situation and they could end up leaving CAL's training center open all summer, although I've been told that it's very unlikely - CAL's business model is very lean; they flush the training department during the summer and have every pilot out flying the line. Northwest had the exact same model. You can do that if you're a smaller company; it's much harder to do it as a large company. With the continuing retirement of 757s on the UAL side, I doubt that we see any recalls on the UAL side before 2014 in spite of 25 retirements/month.
As I stated in my above post, I talked at length to the guy that called me. He said that he was a furloughee working at UAL and they had some slow time so they were directed to contact all furloughees and check to make sure that their information was up to date.
I give whomever at UAL kudos for being proactive on this matter.
As far as me getting a job offer at CAL, it looks like I'm going to miss the April cut by about 20 pilots. As of now, the plan is for CAL to shut down training for the summer and restart training in the fall. Of course this is a fluid situation and they could end up leaving CAL's training center open all summer, although I've been told that it's very unlikely - CAL's business model is very lean; they flush the training department during the summer and have every pilot out flying the line. Northwest had the exact same model. You can do that if you're a smaller company; it's much harder to do it as a large company. With the continuing retirement of 757s on the UAL side, I doubt that we see any recalls on the UAL side before 2014 in spite of 25 retirements/month.
12-24-2011 | 12:46 PM
#13
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Joined: Mar 2006
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From: guppy CA
I used to wear rose colored glasses. For the first couple of years of my first furlough. I've found it's better to look at the situation objectively. Is there some reason why you think that there's going to be a JCBA in the next 10 months? There's a very wide gap between the company's and the union's positions.
12-24-2011 | 12:49 PM
#14
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Joined: Mar 2006
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From: guppy CA
Just a few years back the training center remained open during the summer, so I would not necessarily believe it would close. As you stated its fluid and CAL is very agile in its approach. With the 737s and 787 being added, new routes and projected retirements , don't be surprised if there's not new hire training that goes through the summer. Have seen them throttle-up and back on short-notice.
The AMR bankruptcy may change things a bit, as would pilots on the CAL approaching 65 burning their sick leave prior to retirement. On the UAL side, it won't matter if pilots approaching 65 burn their sick leave; with the 75s that were parked, LUAL's fat on pilots.
12-24-2011 | 04:14 PM
#15
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From: 787 CA
As of now, the plan is for CAL to shut down training for the summer and restart training in the fall. Of course this is a fluid situation and they could end up leaving CAL's training center open all summer, although I've been told that it's very unlikely - CAL's business model is very lean; they flush the training department during the summer and have every pilot out flying the line.
12-24-2011 | 04:21 PM
#16
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Take off the rose colored glasses on summer training folks. Old Man Abbott knows he would be cutting off his prime source of JM saviors if he allowed summer training. Canceled flights equals canceled bonuses for skeletal staffing. Sorry guys but those are the facts.
12-24-2011 | 06:20 PM
#17
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From: 737
I used to wear rose colored glasses. For the first couple of years of my first furlough. I've found it's better to look at the situation objectively. Is there some reason why you think that there's going to be a JCBA in the next 10 months? There's a very wide gap between the company's and the union's positions.
Can you please post the factual wide gap of positions. I have not seen ACTUAL numbers to see...just rumors and opinions. I would like to see those when you have time to put them up. I have never seen what we are asking for, closest I ever read was someones opinion of $$ we were apart but that was a long time ago.
I understand that there is a gap..thus not having a JCBA yet. I am just curious of how one can be so certain that it will be beyond 10 months till anything is done. I have seen contracts in other companies that I have worked for get settled much quicker than anticipated.
12-24-2011 | 07:26 PM
#18
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From: guppy CA
Can you please post the factual wide gap of positions. I have not seen ACTUAL numbers to see...just rumors and opinions. I would like to see those when you have time to put them up. I have never seen what we are asking for, closest I ever read was someones opinion of $$ we were apart but that was a long time ago.
I understand that there is a gap..thus not having a JCBA yet. I am just curious of how one can be so certain that it will be beyond 10 months till anything is done. I have seen contracts in other companies that I have worked for get settled much quicker than anticipated.
I understand that there is a gap..thus not having a JCBA yet. I am just curious of how one can be so certain that it will be beyond 10 months till anything is done. I have seen contracts in other companies that I have worked for get settled much quicker than anticipated.
Read the weekly Joint Negotiating Committee update. I haven't read any statements from them indicating progress for quite a while.
Add to that the election of Jay Heppner to MEC Chair. Since he'll be leaving the JNC, that will slow down negotiations.
AMR's bankruptcy will put further downward pressure on any offer from management.
Quantify the financial synergies that UAL will gain with a combined pilot list. Now quantify the amount of additional wages that the pilots are demanding in JCBA negotiations.
- Until the synergies minus additonal wages is zero or positive, there is no incentive for the company to complete the JCBA.
Under the TPA, there is no mechanism for the pilots to obtain work action (aka strike).
The estimates that I've seen put a new pilot contract north of an additional $600 million annually. The company is negotiating with multiple unions; all want pay raises.
To be clear, you misinterpreted my post. I asked why you thought that there would be a JCBA within the next 10 months. I considered that to be a long enough timeframe for specific answers. What do you consider to be a reasonable timeframe to have a JCBA completed and what's your rationale?
12-25-2011 | 05:55 AM
#19
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Joined: Oct 2006
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From: 737
[QUOTE=Andy;1107579]2012 airline industry outlook - Page 2 - Chicago Tribune
Read the weekly Joint Negotiating Committee update. I haven't read any statements from them indicating progress for quite a while.
Add to that the election of Jay Heppner to MEC Chair. Since he'll be leaving the JNC, that will slow down negotiations.
AMR's bankruptcy will put further downward pressure on any offer from management.
Quantify the financial synergies that UAL will gain with a combined pilot list. Now quantify the amount of additional wages that the pilots are demanding in JCBA negotiations.
12500 Pilots...12500 opinions...is all this is.
Ever notice that in the updates they stopped showing what are AIP items and what are not? Why is that...probably because it is down to just a few outstanding items...and yes big ones. Again, an opinion. I have not read or seen anything of detail of what we are looking for...just general statements of " we are dedicated to negotiating a fair contract", and unless your in the room...no one has seen actual numbers.
I just am not a big fan of the Eeyore outlook on everything...but we all have our choice on how we see things.
Read the weekly Joint Negotiating Committee update. I haven't read any statements from them indicating progress for quite a while.
Add to that the election of Jay Heppner to MEC Chair. Since he'll be leaving the JNC, that will slow down negotiations.
AMR's bankruptcy will put further downward pressure on any offer from management.
Quantify the financial synergies that UAL will gain with a combined pilot list. Now quantify the amount of additional wages that the pilots are demanding in JCBA negotiations.
12500 Pilots...12500 opinions...is all this is.
Ever notice that in the updates they stopped showing what are AIP items and what are not? Why is that...probably because it is down to just a few outstanding items...and yes big ones. Again, an opinion. I have not read or seen anything of detail of what we are looking for...just general statements of " we are dedicated to negotiating a fair contract", and unless your in the room...no one has seen actual numbers.
I just am not a big fan of the Eeyore outlook on everything...but we all have our choice on how we see things.
12-25-2011 | 09:48 AM
#20
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,213
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From: guppy CA
Ever notice that in the updates they stopped showing what are AIP items and what are not? Why is that...probably because it is down to just a few outstanding items...and yes big ones. Again, an opinion. I have not read or seen anything of detail of what we are looking for...just general statements of " we are dedicated to negotiating a fair contract", and unless your in the room...no one has seen actual numbers.
I just am not a big fan of the Eeyore outlook on everything...but we all have our choice on how we see things.
I just am not a big fan of the Eeyore outlook on everything...but we all have our choice on how we see things.
The union's JCBA weekly updates stopped in mid-November and you don't see a problem?
Your Eeeyore comment was unnecessary. Why did you choose to resort to name calling rather than addressing my bullet points? I have made analytical errors in the past and will make them in the future - however, I expect logical counterpoints, not elementary school name calling. If you weren't going to engage in an intellectual conversation, why did you bother to ask me for my reasons as to why the JCBA won't happen any time soon? Intellectual answers please, not juvenile taunts.
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