Originally Posted by flyingfarmer

Last I checked, the responsibilities were the same. I believe this would make Junior/Senior less of an issue, reduce infighting, and allow us to concentrate on the company. However, the down side... Save the airline money; we could ask for this be put toward the pilot contract. Also, less training... Fewer training events... Fewer instructors.

Originally Posted by Coach67

Try to think of it this way. Are the responsibilities the same for flying a C-172 as they are for an A-380? Of course not ... neither are they the same for flying a 737 and a 747. Is the productivity the same? Of course not ... neither are they the same for flying a 737 and a 747. Pilots should be paid more based on the productivity they bring to the table. UPS screwed the industry with their same rate philosophy. The Company wants it for the reasons you outlined ... less Instructors ... less training ... which means less pilots. Pay Banding also means that it takes our productivity argument out of the equation for negotiating pay.

Please read the first chapter in "Flying the Line" titled "What's a Pilot Worth?" Pilot's pay increased dramatically because of the higher speeds and greater number of seats when airlines switched from Connies to 707's and DC-8's because of the increased responsibilities and productivity. We all owe the guys back then for their foresight to lock in pay to productivity. Even though our rates have stalled temporarily ... we still need to chuck pay banding and pay by productivity!

Originally Posted by ewrbasedpilot

Many here feel that only the "select few" should be paid well. I can carry just as many (or more) passengers in my B-737ER's in a day, but someone carrying 350 passengers who spends a third of his flight in a bunk or sitting in a f/c seat sleeping, deserves more money? I get to bust my butt changing planes up to four times in a day, briefing just as many flight attendants, and doing a WHOLE LOT MORE WORK for a lot less and this is considered fair? To go even further, the "heavy" pilots are only working two out of their three days, so let's break this down even further. If I fly four legs the first day, three the next, and three the last day, I've flown a total of ten legs. If I'm on the 800/900's for all ten legs, I have flown approximately 1600 passengers (assuming approx 90% load factor) or MORE than DOUBLE what the heavy guys carried (700 or so round trip for them). We also carry a lot of premium passengers but will have over 200 FC seats available or more than double what the heavies will have over the same time frame. We also carry a LOT of mail and cargo, so we make money there too. I just find it interesting that everyone thinks the heavy pilots are the only ones who should make any money when it's the small/mid aircraft that are doing all the work. Besides, everyone can't fly the big boys, so why not make it FAIR for ALL? Maybe we should just say that the more legs you fly, the more you'd make......................then you'd see those heavy pilots scrambling for the smaller aircraft and THEY would be screaming that they do all the work and deserve more money. I also have a hard time seeing an FO whose main responsibility is to assist the captain, making more money than captains on smaller aircraft who are responsible for a whole lot more. JMHO.........................

Originally Posted by Coach67

UPS screwed the industry with their same rate philosophy.

Originally Posted by bkaz

No, that would not be a bad thing. That is not what will happen though. The 767 pilots will receive a windfall at the expense of 747 pilot pay to facilitate a better ISL for the CAL pilots, thus screwing the UAL 747 pilots again.

Luckily, with the mood of the UAL pilots at this point, it is likely that a JCBA that includes pay banding will be voted down by the UAL side.

Originally Posted by BoilerUP

Yeah, their pay rates are really "lowering the bar"...

Originally Posted by ewrbasedpilot

Gotta agree with this one! You don't see the UPS guys chasing the pay since they don't need to! What's even funnier is that a friend of mine who's a captain there got DOWNGRADED from the 75 to the MD-11 to the B747! Interesting eh? And he's still making the same amount of money! THAT is how it should be. Some like the longhaul flying and others don't...............so why should we be penalized (monetarily) for the type of flying we do?

Originally Posted by SpecialTracking

Both you and J. Pos are in complete agreement. J. said he would be willing to correct the pay banding issue after the SLI is finalized.

You fully understand the situation.

Originally Posted by CALFO

That's a laugh. How is he going to change a major section of the contract after it's been signed?