Delta + a dollar....
05-16-2012, 11:57 AM
#22
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Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 102
Your absolutely correct..... Let's wait... A 150%...pay increase just to get to delta rates means absolutely nothing and we should all call Jeff and thank him.
WAKE UP!!!!!
Assuming this passes and assuming scope isn't sold to get it, June 16th should be the new rally cry.
What are we willing to do????
WAKE UP!!!!!
Assuming this passes and assuming scope isn't sold to get it, June 16th should be the new rally cry.
What are we willing to do????
05-16-2012, 02:01 PM
#23
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Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 430
Originally Posted by ewr756drive
Your absolutely correct..... Let's wait... A 150%...pay increase just to get to delta rates means absolutely nothing and we should all call Jeff and thank him.
WAKE UP!!!!!
Assuming this passes and assuming scope isn't sold to get it, June 16th should be the new rally cry.
What are we willing to do????
WAKE UP!!!!!
Assuming this passes and assuming scope isn't sold to get it, June 16th should be the new rally cry.
What are we willing to do????
05-16-2012, 07:18 PM
#24
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Joined APC: Jun 2011
Posts: 467
Originally Posted by Slammer
Agree. Mgt wanted/ needed something from the Delta group that is apart of their future business plan and was/ is incentivized to get an agreement in place.
I perceive that DAL management (former management under Gordon Bethune) understood the value of:
1. Getting a deal done sooner than later
2. Keeping their pilots happy
3. keeping a predictiable labor price schedule so that they could price and market their product properly
Delta just bought an oil refinery, fuel prices just became easier to manage.....
05-16-2012, 07:22 PM
#25
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Joined APC: Jun 2011
Posts: 467
Originally Posted by javaguy141
I hope you are right. Some other person said it right. "Scope is more important than pay". Folks we are being boiled alive(We are the frog)
DAL has a 90ish seat RJ in their new payrates.
05-16-2012, 07:27 PM
#26
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Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,713
Originally Posted by Ottolillienthal
....................
Delta just bought an oil refinery, fuel prices just became easier to manage.....
Delta just bought an oil refinery, fuel prices just became easier to manage.....
05-17-2012, 03:37 PM
#27
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Ford E150 Captain
Posts: 69
I'll probably get my head bit of for saying this but I think each unionized pilot group needs to get on the same page for the entire contract. In my opinion payrates, workrules, scheduling, even amendable dates and contract length should line up across the board. Take pilot labor costs totally out of the picture, no airline would have any labor advantage. And if we could get language in each contract that payrates will increase by 3% per year for cost of living after the amendable date. If the Delta contract is any good and gets ratified, then UCH demands the same thing, then AA-US (if that happens). Then every other unionized carrier could demand the same. This career may actually turn out OK for those of us still trying to get to the point where we earn a comfortable living.
05-17-2012, 03:44 PM
#28
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Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: 767 F/O
Posts: 303
Originally Posted by glyde
I'll probably get my head bit of for saying this but I think each unionized pilot group needs to get on the same page for the entire contract. In my opinion payrates, workrules, scheduling, even amendable dates and contract length should line up across the board. Take pilot labor costs totally out of the picture, no airline would have any labor advantage. And if we could get language in each contract that payrates will increase by 3% per year for cost of living after the amendable date. If the Delta contract is any good and gets ratified, then UCH demands the same thing, then AA-US (if that happens). Then every other unionized carrier could demand the same. This career may actually turn out OK for those of us still trying to get to the point where we earn a comfortable living.
05-17-2012, 04:22 PM
#29
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Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 737
Posts: 83
Originally Posted by Pilotbiffster
Good idea "in theory", but what of all the non-union airlines out there? There's always someone willing to do the job for less. What we "SHOULD" have done, way back when, was institute a National seniority list. Standard pay, date of hire goes with you wherever you wind up. Horse is out of the barn on that one though.
05-17-2012, 04:48 PM
#30
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: F-16
Posts: 201
Originally Posted by javaguy141
I hope you are right. Some other person said it right. "Scope is more important than pay". Folks we are being boiled alive(We are the frog)
No doubt, scope is the most important issue. Saw this in the Delta thread:
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Been swamped lately, but I just wanted one last shot at emphasizing the importance of scope. I had a teleconference yesterday with attorneys from a multi-disciplined firm on another topic. After the call, I asked one who was versed in labor law why it was that courts keep deciding that unions do NOT have the right to strike over an attempt to regain losses in the scope of their work. The answer was sickeningly simple. She said that once a union voluntarily gives up areas of the work they will perform for the company; those jobs are no longer their jobs. From that point forward they are another person’s job, and as such, you cannot use the bludgeon of a strike to mandate the “stealing” of another person’s job.
If we end up not liking any sections outside of scope, we can always force a job action to fix it if management refuses to budge. If we end up not liking scope, there’s NOTHING we can do about it unless management decides to give it up voluntarily. When this TA comes out and allows more 76 seat jets to be flown by non-Delta pilots, understand that a YES vote from you means you’re not only giving Delta jobs away to other companies, but you are relinquishing your right to EVER retrieve them again. DALPA should be warning everyone of this wrinkle in labor law, but they apparently cannot do so without incurring the worry of a DFR suit.
Scope is different. Scope is not like anything else in our contract. If we send this back to the Negotiating Committee with a note saying that we’re fine with everything except you must remove ANY concessions in section 1, it would put the company in a hell of a position. If they say NO, they will have unmasked themselves as to their real plan. If they say YES, then the pilots of Delta Air Lines will have set the new industry benchmark for the end of voluntarily giving more of our jobs to another company and losing them permanently.
Think hard ladies and gentlemen. Think really hard.
Carl
If we end up not liking any sections outside of scope, we can always force a job action to fix it if management refuses to budge. If we end up not liking scope, there’s NOTHING we can do about it unless management decides to give it up voluntarily. When this TA comes out and allows more 76 seat jets to be flown by non-Delta pilots, understand that a YES vote from you means you’re not only giving Delta jobs away to other companies, but you are relinquishing your right to EVER retrieve them again. DALPA should be warning everyone of this wrinkle in labor law, but they apparently cannot do so without incurring the worry of a DFR suit.
Scope is different. Scope is not like anything else in our contract. If we send this back to the Negotiating Committee with a note saying that we’re fine with everything except you must remove ANY concessions in section 1, it would put the company in a hell of a position. If they say NO, they will have unmasked themselves as to their real plan. If they say YES, then the pilots of Delta Air Lines will have set the new industry benchmark for the end of voluntarily giving more of our jobs to another company and losing them permanently.
Think hard ladies and gentlemen. Think really hard.
Carl
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