Coto Pilot

And you think it is fair that that seniority be used in determining the ISL? I flew for United Express for seven years and Bar Harbor for another year, I suppose you think that none of that should count?

throttleweenie

You might wanna reel in some o' that venom. I doubt if any senior pilots ever screwed you, unless you let them have their way with you on a layover.

The MEC that was in office during the bond distribution was mostly junior. Nobody screwed anybody. There were guys younger and junior to me that got bigger bond distributions than I did. Yes, that happened, and I wasn't on any leaves, extended sick leave, or anything else like that. I didn't whine about the way the system stuck it to me. I accepted it.

You need to look at the no-furlough clause again. There were economic restrictions on the no-furlough clause. It's just that nobody was expecting the downturn that happened.

I have quite a few friends who were furloughed in '79, and some who were furloughed after 9/11. I have never heard the older ones playing the blame game as you're doing. Give it a rest.

T/W

CALFO

Count towards what? Whatever their method of getting to CAL, they now own their position on the seniority list.

yoter83

I follow this board pretty adamantly and I rarely post, but 10 pages of diatribe got the best of me (grammar and spelling, namely). The good news from this impending mess is that Jeff doesn't stand a chance at holding his job. Unfortunately, he'll likely land in a pillow factory, but it opens the doors for better leadership.....or Capt. Abbot :-(

EWRflyr

A pilot's position on their respective individual seniority list is their position period. How they got their on that list has nothing to do with the other subsidiary and their methodology or what they wished it would be. I think we all wish the "opportunists" were at the bottom of the list, but the fact of the matter is the SL at each company is what it is.

When it comes to SLI, no pilot on either list can wind up more senior to someone senior to them on that same list. In other words, in the final SLI, I cannot end up more senior to the guy above me on the S-CAL list and likewise for someone at L-UAL. Looking down the combined list every UAL pilot and CAL pilot will end up in the same order as they were on their own pre-merged list. I believe this was even spelled out by the merger committees.

Old UCAL CA

It is spelled out by the policy and procedure itself. Both committees are certainly likely to re-emphasize that point.

Mwindaji

I get it. You would like date of hire because it benefits you the most. I would like to maintain my relative senority. I don't want to screw anyone over and I don't want to get screwed. I'm a 98 hire , B737 Captain sitting reserve. Also I am not a former express pilot. If I got my wish we would have never merged. I think I would have been much better off. Can you say the same? However, we can all wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one fills first. Bottom line is your's or my opinion about how the ISL should be done will not mean dick in the final outcome.

XHooker

Their seniority was protected because Continental, which owned both CAL and Express, could not let them leave their present position. In my mind, the same principle as being pay protected if somebody is upgraded out of seniority order due to training issues. If you were working for a wholly owned subsidiary of UAL and were hired by mainline, but denied advancement to mainline because UAX couldn't allow you to go for a year while they got enough experience for, and trained, your replacement, how would you feel?

As to your point about this having an effect on the SLI, it won't make a difference unless it is straight DOH, and I'll bet you what's left of my retirement that doesn't happen. In case you're wondering, I wasn't an Express flow through, and previously hired Express pilots are senior to me, despite my showing up at mainline before them. I knew the rules, and what's fair is fair.

Wrsofked

Exactly...some of these guys don't get that, or just don't want to get it.

These were two very different airlines...one was managed well in the last ten years and the other differently. Continental hired pilots and they gained seniority, united pilots unfortunately were furloughed and suffered from no movement or backwards movement.

The merger policy dictates that there be no WINDFALL for anyone.

Some of you guys might as well get used to the idea that relative seniority will mean some Continental pilots hired after your hire date will be senior to you. Just as some United guys will likely be senior to some hired after them.

Dicecal

Been hearing all about "relative seniority" since the merger was announced, however do not see it in ALPA merger policy. Longevity is in ALPA merger policy. I am not saying it should be DOH, does not matter what I think anyway. It will go to arbitration, and I'm sure there will be some kinda slotting done to integrate the lists. Anyway, until we have JCBA that passes, the point it moot.