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Sonny Crockett 09-15-2012 06:47 PM


Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1261523)
There are Delta 2007 hires that were put senior to NWA 2000 hires on the DAL/NWA merged list.

.........and ALPA merger policy has changed since the DAL/NWA merger.



Which airline was bigger DAL or NWA? DAL=UAL NWA=CAL

Careful what you wish for pal!

routemap 09-15-2012 09:31 PM


Originally Posted by Sonny Crockett (Post 1261274)
Nobody at L-UAL is screaming for DOH.....however I fully expect the furloughed guys hired in 99' to NOT go behind the 2005-2007 CAL crowd....good luck thinking they will our active service is over 8 years without LONGEVITY.


I have had 2007 CAL hires think they will "beat" out all the UAL furloughed bubba's......aint gonna happen!

I'm sure you know this, but "Factors that must be considered in constructing a fair and equitable integrated seniority list in no particular order and with no particular weight include but are not limited to: career expectations, longevity, status and category."

To fully expect the 1999 furloughs to NOT go behind the 2005-2007 CAL hires is a bold statement. Bottom line is furloughed is a bad place to be in a merger.

Anyway, glad you are not the on the arbitration board, you would put me back on reserve all because of longevity, longevity, longevity.

Columbia 09-15-2012 11:28 PM


Originally Posted by Sonny Crockett (Post 1261489)
A seniority list is just like a ladder full of naked people... Look down all you see is smiling faces, Look up all you see buttholes waiting to poop all over you!!!

Huh? Looking down, I would find people looking up at others buttholes and wincing.

Coto Pilot 09-16-2012 04:57 AM


Originally Posted by routemap (Post 1261654)
I'm sure you know this, but "Factors that must be considered in constructing a fair and equitable integrated seniority list in no particular order and with no particular weight include but are not limited to: career expectations, longevity, status and category."

To fully expect the 1999 furloughs to NOT go behind the 2005-2007 CAL hires is a bold statement. Bottom line is furloughed is a bad place to be in a merger.

Anyway, glad you are not the on the arbitration board, you would put me back on reserve all because of longevity, longevity, longevity.

It's not just longevity it's career expectations. United had two and a half times the number of wide bodies that Continental had.

APC225 09-16-2012 05:19 AM


Originally Posted by Coto Pilot (Post 1261695)
It's not just longevity it's career expectations. United had two and a half times the number of wide bodies that Continental had.

United has two and a half times more outsourced flying than Continental has. You need a career before you can have career expectations. United kicked 1500 guys to the streets years ago. That's when the discussion of career expectations would have been useful.

SOTeric 09-16-2012 05:36 AM


Originally Posted by routemap (Post 1261654)
I'm sure you know this, but "Factors that must be considered in constructing a fair and equitable integrated seniority list in no particular order and with no particular weight include but are not limited to: career expectations, longevity, status and category."

To fully expect the 1999 furloughs to NOT go behind the 2005-2007 CAL hires is a bold statement. Bottom line is furloughed is a bad place to be in a merger.

Anyway, glad you are not the on the arbitration board, you would put me back on reserve all because of longevity, longevity, longevity.

Has there ever been a seniority integration between two major carriers where one had furloughed pilots stapled to the bottom of the list? Which merger are you basing your comment on?

untied 09-16-2012 05:38 AM


Originally Posted by APC225 (Post 1261707)
You need a career before you can have career expectations. United has two and a half times more outsourced flying than Continental has.

Yet our mainline is still much larger than CAL.

Plenty of planes, lots of retirements, big career expectations over the next 10 years.

johnso29 09-16-2012 05:42 AM


Originally Posted by SOTeric (Post 1261543)
And I suppose you think that's fair? No windfall? Did it take into account longevity? (The years of service kind).

I guess in the end it only matters what the arbitrators think eh?

No. I think it sucks. I am PMNW BTW. My point was simply that it's not all about longevity in the eyes of an arbitrator.

johnso29 09-16-2012 05:45 AM


Originally Posted by ualratt (Post 1261581)
...and there are over 300 pilots still on furlough at DAL whom the CAL brethrens believe should have been stapled. Well they're not...

No one at DAL is on involuntary furlough.



Originally Posted by Sonny Crockett (Post 1261607)
.........and ALPA merger policy has changed since the DAL/NWA merger.

Which airline was bigger DAL or NWA? DAL=UAL NWA=CAL

Careful what you wish for pal!

I'm not sure what you mean by your last comment. I have no dog in this fight. I was simply making a point. You don't have to like it, or agree with it. But if binding arbitration is agreed to, don't expect anything but the unexpected.

SoCalGuy 09-16-2012 05:50 AM


Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1261724)
No one at DAL is on involuntary furlough.

Question John...
Were there any furloughs (DAL or NWA) that were not offered "recall" prior to the DAL/NWA Merger taking place?
IE - At Merger Announcement Date.


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