Who's advocating that? He should go wherever he is now...if he's 50% on his list, he should be 50% on the new list...how is that NOT fair?? He gains nothing...he loses nothing. It's pretty fing simple, UNLESS someone expects a windfall.

Such a myopic way of looking at the SLI. Simple eh?

All the arguments and complex formulas wont change the fact that unless all are within a few percentage points of where they were, it's hardly a fair SLI. Call that myopic if that's how you see it.

Yes it is. I believe it will be within a few percentage points of his/her current seniority percentage. Where it gets muddy is the 15 year UAL pilot believes he is better than the 10 CAL pilot that he may be integrated with.

I'm a 14 year CAL 756 CA. It appears my career expectation is much better than the 15 UAL FO. A percentage integration - while painful - would be the most fair.

You are advocating a straight relative seniority SLI. That is not what current ALPA merger poicy states.

Category & Status
Longevity
Career expectations

Part of career expectations is....A widebody captain makes the most money. If you were going to be a widebody captain for x years on your list based on retirements before SLI, then your should be a w/b captain for close to x years based on retirements after the SLI. How is THAT not fair?

Basing the list entirely on relative seniority does not take longevity and career expectations into account.

This word "windfall". Are you quoting the old merger poicy used for AAA/AWA and DAL/NWA? You do know it has changed, right? Can't find that word anywhere. Maybe I missed it. You can browse the policy on the link below.

SLed

https://crewroom.alpa.org/ual/Deskto...cumentID=45274

A percentage integration, while what you desire, is not what ALPA merger poicy dictates.

Sled

Not exactly straight relative, but close. Career expectations are not so vastly different to expect it to make much of a difference on the SLI. I'll give you the longevity argument. There needs to be some recognition for longevity. (furloughed pilots do not accrue longevity and their status is furloughed) They MAY get it for pay purposes.

So even using the "new" alpa merger policy, the only significant element is longevity. I still say it will end up within a few percentage points of relative.

Here's the problem with a "percentage integration"....

I'm supposed to retire at about #160. My career stagnated in the middle, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I'll have 37 years seniority in the end, and that should put me VERY senior flying a widebody.

Let's say they put my 1997 seniority with some 2007 guy since we're both on the 767 right now. Now I'm basically stapled and will never crack the top 1,200 on the combined list.

Tell me that my career expectations have not been harmed!

ALPA saw this, and they changed the merger policy. I don't think I'm "better" than a 14 year CAL guy, but I certainly don't deserve to be stapled to the bottom just as the retirements start and my career finally "gets going".

The final result should be something in the middle. A few guys taking Captain seats out of seniority at CAL will not drive the entire process. The fact that about 80% of CAL flying is done on the guppy should help the UAL guys who have a much greater chance of flying bigger equipment.

Relative seniority integration cost ALPA TWO major airlines (and all those dues). If it goes that way, ALPA is done on the property.

I talked to one CAL guy who is a 2007 hire. He believes that he should be senior to me. It's funny....it would be like he got hired at UAL when he was a teenager (he was 17 in 1997). What a deal!

I know similar things happened at USAir....that's why the policy was changed.

In the end, it's out of our hands.

Sorry about that. And no sarcasm intended!

Excellent. That means there's about 147 active CAL pilots that were furloughed when the formal merger was announced (and presumptive "snapshot" date given past practice) that will also be thrown under the bus.

It'll be really, really, hilarious when they are placed below pilots on the CAL list (i.e. furloughed UAL pilots) that are currently junior to them considering that the vast majority of furloughed UAL pilots have both a DOH and longevity advantage.

But that's a small price to pay for the benefit of all other CAL pilots, right?