I don't think we're going to know that. That way if it passes, each pilot group can blame the other one for rest of our careers. CAL management has used these divisions to hold pilots down for a generation.

 

I continue to find your posts intriguing. Again, I have nothing to report but positive experiences with CAL Captains and they report the same about the UAL FO's. You have either had a really bad streak of luck with my comrades or you have one hell of a chip on your shoulder wrt United.

Tell me captain, when you encounter these living devils, do you use your CRM skills to set the appropriate tone, contact Professional Standards, contact your CP, or just come on an anonymous message board to whine?

 

Roger that - Motch and Skip.........keep the Pimp hand StRoNg !!

 

Motch, while I can't prove it because there are no voting breakdowns by demographics, my informal observation of pilots during C02 would dispute your assertions about who votes yes/no and why. Long story short, the voting breakdown won't be along lines determined by stereotypes or assumptions about who benefits most or least.

 

next seven years 25% of the list retires, basically their last contact. They will want to get what they can get as early as possible before they go, those are all yes votes. From there all they need is one in three to vote yes for it to pass. Do the demographic math and you will get your answer on the vote.

 

If they want to get as much as they can get this does not sound like the contract they will vote yes for.

 

Motch!

Your PS suggests that the MECs have been successful in considerably adjusting our expectations because that's exactly what that comparison seeks to accomplish. Let's take our pilot suits off for a second and open our minds for once. I have no interest in how much of a % raise either pilot group receives as compared to the other. Neither of our current contracts nor for that matter, Delta's, represent "industry" leading in value to US pilots, which is where any comparison and my "yes" or "no" vote lies.

To give you some perspective, those leaked JCBA numbers will only equal Delta's 2015 rates, in 2017. That's how far behind JCBA leaked rates are, and I can't imagine it will contain a tighter scope section, more sizable retirement %, superior work rules, and an appreciable penality remunerator, to close the gap. So in that sense it's already a non starter, DQ at the blocks.

JP is already selling this as the best alternative but I'm not supprise. JH will await the outcome of the national election before he plays his hand(November 5th delay comes to mind).

Either way, I won't be dupped especially with stupid comparisons like JCBA rates vs L-UAL / L-CAL rates.

 

Another way of looking at the situation is accounting for what we have lost. If we only consider DAL as the standard bearer, it diminishes what was taken from us and the goals we strive for.

Case in point would be the last round of pay cuts we took at UAL during bankruptcy. You know, the 11% that was absolutely necessary to obtain exit financing. The one that was taken after the 30-38% round. Just to recoup that 11% we need a 27% raise. After the economic devastation we have endured over the past ten years, are we as a group content with only regaining an 11% cut?

Is anyone happy looking at RJ's parked at gates due to the scope we lost? How many furloughs did that create? How long have we sat in our current seat? How much damage can an extremely large fleet of 70-76(90 seat frames) do to our future careers? Keep in mind that once the planes are flying in the system, it's hard to get rid of them. Contract restrictions on their use however, are a mere stroke of a pen.

Finally, what have we lost since the amendable date of our contracts? Every time we turn a wheel without a contract, do we talk in terms of lump sum or signing bonus, or do we watch every hour pass and say I am worth $X not $Y. What have you lost between X and Y?

Many will try to diminish expectations on gains while forgetting what we have lost. I for one, have lost my dignity.

 

Spot on. You should re-post this about a week after we see the TA; after the initial Rah-Rah & push back.

 

Just the point I was trying to make. I think you slightly misinterpreted my post as I never considered DELTA's substandard agreement to be the bearer of any standard including mine. Both MECs are leading a concerted effort to adjust expectations with this one. They should not be allowed to succeed.