best offer -- UAL MEC Chair
11-21-2012 | 01:14 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Dear Fellow Pilots:
Now, instead of enjoying the fruits of that labor and moving forward to a better life for ourselves and our families, we have throwbacks from previous administrations who think they suddenly now know how the RLA works, what the National Mediation Board (NMB) is thinking, hidden interpretations within the TPA, and how to exploit the company’s innermost secret weaknesses. Some have even purported intimate inside knowledge of the NMB and of management’s worries. Anyone who thinks this company is cowering like a scared bunny in a corner is a fool. Somehow, the power of email lists, forums and Adobe pdf is able to trump the best of expert advice that the MEC has relied upon these past months. Many of the leverage points now being raised were the leverage points relied upon during the first 18 months of these negotiations, and we are painfully aware what that strategy has gotten us – 18 months of negotiations with not one of the major sections of the JCBA completed.
Take the emotions out of your TA decision. Learn from our recent history and apply those lessons to the current environment.
We are United,
Jay Heppner
Chairman, United Master Executive Council
Air Line Pilots Association, International
Now, instead of enjoying the fruits of that labor and moving forward to a better life for ourselves and our families, we have throwbacks from previous administrations who think they suddenly now know how the RLA works, what the National Mediation Board (NMB) is thinking, hidden interpretations within the TPA, and how to exploit the company’s innermost secret weaknesses. Some have even purported intimate inside knowledge of the NMB and of management’s worries. Anyone who thinks this company is cowering like a scared bunny in a corner is a fool. Somehow, the power of email lists, forums and Adobe pdf is able to trump the best of expert advice that the MEC has relied upon these past months. Many of the leverage points now being raised were the leverage points relied upon during the first 18 months of these negotiations, and we are painfully aware what that strategy has gotten us – 18 months of negotiations with not one of the major sections of the JCBA completed.
Take the emotions out of your TA decision. Learn from our recent history and apply those lessons to the current environment.
We are United,
Jay Heppner
Chairman, United Master Executive Council
Air Line Pilots Association, International
Heppner ... weren't you the Negotiating Committee Chair during the time that "not one of the major sections of the JCBA completed?" Is that your fault as Nego Comm Chair or the "Previous MEC Chair's fault?
Now you are taking credit for engineering a substandard industry scope that permits 90 seat RJ's with only 76 seats to be flown by non UAL/CAL pilots? Is that your fault as MEC Chair or the "current Nego Comm Chair's fault?
Are you going to take credit for the lousy reserve system or blame that on the previous adminstration throw backs. Give me a f#$$in' break.
I'd rather not have a contract and go the way of USAIR than fly under this POS JCBA TA!
11-21-2012 | 01:32 PM
#14
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
From: 2172
11-21-2012 | 02:12 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
"This total contract is richer than the Delta pilots’ contract beginning in 2014 despite slightly lagging in pay rates."
Can someone explain what this statement means. As a Delta guy it appears that the TA pay and work rules lag our current contract.
When he says it is richer than Delta''s is that because there are more United/CAL pilots total than Delta so the total pilot cost is more. Because it sure seems the cost per pilot will be less than Delta's. And if that is the case this seems rather deceitful.
Can someone explain what this statement means. As a Delta guy it appears that the TA pay and work rules lag our current contract.
When he says it is richer than Delta''s is that because there are more United/CAL pilots total than Delta so the total pilot cost is more. Because it sure seems the cost per pilot will be less than Delta's. And if that is the case this seems rather deceitful.
11-21-2012 | 04:00 PM
#16
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: iah 73 fo
...and the selling by the union begins
Hold your NO votes till 3 days prior to closing so the union wont feel so pressured to use their sell tactics.
And wondering....the claim that this contract is greater than deltas include our 2017 rates and use deltas 2016 rates?? Cause im betting that their 2017 rates will kick our asss with their new contract.
Hold your NO votes till 3 days prior to closing so the union wont feel so pressured to use their sell tactics.
And wondering....the claim that this contract is greater than deltas include our 2017 rates and use deltas 2016 rates?? Cause im betting that their 2017 rates will kick our asss with their new contract.
11-21-2012 | 04:12 PM
#17
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 0
From: UAL retired
Parade of turds because they will change the seats from 90 to 76?
This is a classic example of internet idiotic stupid remarks. The TA has a weight restriction. The number of seats actually in a plane is irrelevant. The weight of the plane is what matters.
Regional airlines are at the beginning of a new era where they are in decline. They got to where they are because of the economics of 50 seaters but the growing storm related to labor costs and the fuel costs associated with 50 seaters are ushering in a new era where mainline recovers the jobs and regionals loses jobs.
These tidbits are taken from the Skywest AR:
This is a classic example of internet idiotic stupid remarks. The TA has a weight restriction. The number of seats actually in a plane is irrelevant. The weight of the plane is what matters.
Regional airlines are at the beginning of a new era where they are in decline. They got to where they are because of the economics of 50 seaters but the growing storm related to labor costs and the fuel costs associated with 50 seaters are ushering in a new era where mainline recovers the jobs and regionals loses jobs.
These tidbits are taken from the Skywest AR:
Challenges in 2011
During 2011 we were in the middle of three year engine overhaul cycle for engines on our United CR.J200 regional jet fleet and we incurred total overhaul costs of $77.5 million Planned spending levels for these overhauls are estimated to be $50 million in 2012 and $20 million in 2013 Costs at ExpressJet are higher than competitive standards and in addition to the integration savings are expected to be reduced in each of the following two years.
Going forward we are addressing these issues through gaining better control over aging aircraft costs and through rate discussions with our major partners that reflect the realities of operating these aircraft.
Long-term Contracts with Re-fleet Rights
SkyWest is in strong position in our fleet replacement strategy which will give us the opportunity to replace aging aircraft with newer and in some cases larger aircraft which will positively impact both our partners costs and our margins.
Reduced utilization levels of our aircraft under our code-share agreements would adversely impact our financial results.
Generally our major partners have utilized our flight operations at levels which exceed the minimum levels set forth in our code-share agreements however in recent years our major partners have reduced our utilization to levels which at times have been lower than the levels required by our code-share agreements If our major partners schedule the utilization of our aircraft below historical levels including taking into account the stage length and frequency of our scheduled flights we may not be able to maintain operating efficiencies previously obtained which would negatively Impact our operating results and financial condition.
There are long-term risks related to supply and demand of regional aircraft associated with our regional airline services strategy.
Many of our major airline partners have publicly indicated in the past
that their committed supply of regional airline capacity is larger than they desire given current market conditions Specifically they cite an oversupply of 50-seat regional jets under contractual commitments with regional airlines. Delta in particular has reduced both the number of 50 seat regional jets within its network and the number of regional airlines with which it contracts There are currently more than 300 50-seat aircraft within the
Delta Connection system In addition to reducing the number of 50 seat jets under contract major airlines have reduced the utilization of regional aircraft thereby reducing the revenue paid to regional airlines under capacity purchase agreements See the risk factor titled Reduced utilization levels of our aircraft under our code share agreements would adversely impact our financial results for additional details This decrease had negative impact on our regional airline services revenue and profitability.
During 2011 we were in the middle of three year engine overhaul cycle for engines on our United CR.J200 regional jet fleet and we incurred total overhaul costs of $77.5 million Planned spending levels for these overhauls are estimated to be $50 million in 2012 and $20 million in 2013 Costs at ExpressJet are higher than competitive standards and in addition to the integration savings are expected to be reduced in each of the following two years.
Going forward we are addressing these issues through gaining better control over aging aircraft costs and through rate discussions with our major partners that reflect the realities of operating these aircraft.
Long-term Contracts with Re-fleet Rights
SkyWest is in strong position in our fleet replacement strategy which will give us the opportunity to replace aging aircraft with newer and in some cases larger aircraft which will positively impact both our partners costs and our margins.
Reduced utilization levels of our aircraft under our code-share agreements would adversely impact our financial results.
Generally our major partners have utilized our flight operations at levels which exceed the minimum levels set forth in our code-share agreements however in recent years our major partners have reduced our utilization to levels which at times have been lower than the levels required by our code-share agreements If our major partners schedule the utilization of our aircraft below historical levels including taking into account the stage length and frequency of our scheduled flights we may not be able to maintain operating efficiencies previously obtained which would negatively Impact our operating results and financial condition.
There are long-term risks related to supply and demand of regional aircraft associated with our regional airline services strategy.
Many of our major airline partners have publicly indicated in the past
that their committed supply of regional airline capacity is larger than they desire given current market conditions Specifically they cite an oversupply of 50-seat regional jets under contractual commitments with regional airlines. Delta in particular has reduced both the number of 50 seat regional jets within its network and the number of regional airlines with which it contracts There are currently more than 300 50-seat aircraft within the
Delta Connection system In addition to reducing the number of 50 seat jets under contract major airlines have reduced the utilization of regional aircraft thereby reducing the revenue paid to regional airlines under capacity purchase agreements See the risk factor titled Reduced utilization levels of our aircraft under our code share agreements would adversely impact our financial results for additional details This decrease had negative impact on our regional airline services revenue and profitability.
11-21-2012 | 05:46 PM
#20
I'd rather be hunting
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
From: B737 Captain
IMO one of the biggest problems with LCAL 02 contract was “retained management right”. This basically stated that unless expressly forbidden by the CBA the company could do as they wished. So a while back I asked one of our CALAPLA lawyers to explain why we had this in our contract. The answer I was given was that “the court” assumes that the company has this right anyway. I then asked, “If so then why does it need to be in the contract? “ I did not get an answer to that question. Interesting that it is gone from this TA.
One of the several problems I have with this contract is the way it is written. I want a CBA that does not need an attorney to interpret it.
IMO The only fact I know for sure is we have spent a lot of money and time for something that is not the best we can get.
I am still voting NO.
To quote Sir Charles, " I may be wrong, but I don't think so."
One of the several problems I have with this contract is the way it is written. I want a CBA that does not need an attorney to interpret it.
IMO The only fact I know for sure is we have spent a lot of money and time for something that is not the best we can get.
I am still voting NO.
To quote Sir Charles, " I may be wrong, but I don't think so."
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