When will you ever have more leverage,VOTE NO
11-24-2012 | 10:43 AM
#21
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From: 737 CAPT
Originally Posted by Regularguy
And for EWR737FO, 10 years??? Where do you come up with this stuff.
How long is this TA if ratified and from what date do you calculate the new amendable date? Do you really expect an additional 5-6 years of negotiations beyond this date?
Where do you come up with this stuff?
11-24-2012 | 10:46 AM
#22
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From: 737 CAPT
Everything in this thread is a perfect example of internet idiocy. Nothing said here has a single fact to back the comment. What is bad about the contract? Give a person a chance to debate.
Let's take one topic: vacation days.
Guys lost 2 days of vacation.
BUT
the pay rate for vacation changed from 2.8 hours to 3.25 so if you want 85 hours of pay in a month and you have 14 days of vacation then you had 39 hours of credit before and needed 51 hours of trips but now you have 46 hours of credit and need 39 hours of pay. You work 51-46=5 hours or one day less and that happens at least twice if not thrice.
So . . . 2 days less vacation . . . NOT actually same days or one day more depending on seniority.
and that's just one issue so go ahead and hit me with another . . .
Let's take one topic: vacation days.
Guys lost 2 days of vacation.
BUT
the pay rate for vacation changed from 2.8 hours to 3.25 so if you want 85 hours of pay in a month and you have 14 days of vacation then you had 39 hours of credit before and needed 51 hours of trips but now you have 46 hours of credit and need 39 hours of pay. You work 51-46=5 hours or one day less and that happens at least twice if not thrice.
So . . . 2 days less vacation . . . NOT actually same days or one day more depending on seniority.
and that's just one issue so go ahead and hit me with another . . .
11-24-2012 | 11:15 AM
#23
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From: A Nobody
Where do you come up with this stuff?
OK quote: "25-A Amendable Date
This Agreement shall become effective on the date of signing hereof, shall continue in full force
and effect through and including January 31, 2017,..."
Simple math says (and I believe we all agree here) this is a four year contract. so adding four years (as you state) this would make it a possible 8 years and that's 2 short of ten.
Considering my fellow sUAL pilots have now lived with a BK completely concessionary contract for 10 real years, including 2 for negotiations, I would say I have some simple knowledge of "where this stuff comes from."
Considering this is not a concessionary contract and then comparing the past 10 with the future possible 8 (I'll concede your worst case scenario) the two are apples and oranges.
Thank you for the response though.
OK quote: "25-A Amendable Date
This Agreement shall become effective on the date of signing hereof, shall continue in full force
and effect through and including January 31, 2017,..."
Simple math says (and I believe we all agree here) this is a four year contract. so adding four years (as you state) this would make it a possible 8 years and that's 2 short of ten.
Considering my fellow sUAL pilots have now lived with a BK completely concessionary contract for 10 real years, including 2 for negotiations, I would say I have some simple knowledge of "where this stuff comes from."
Considering this is not a concessionary contract and then comparing the past 10 with the future possible 8 (I'll concede your worst case scenario) the two are apples and oranges.
Thank you for the response though.
11-25-2012 | 01:11 PM
#25
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Actually, it won't be negotiations per se, it will be stalling and foot dragging and asking to reopen sections and waiting for economic reviews, having to reschedule discussions on certain sections, dealing with the NMB .... what a crock. My attitude for participation here is about as low as it has ever been. This lame group of pilots who will ratify this contract sickens me because this will be the contract I retire under due to the fact that it will be in place for at least 8 maybe 10 years.
11-25-2012 | 05:09 PM
#26
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From: It's still a Guppy, just a bit longer.
When will you ever have more leverage,VOTE NO
What did Bethune publicly say back in C97. He had plenty more ready to offer to the pilots. He was even publicly quoted saying he couldn't believe the pilots voted in the first offer. The company would never come to the table without a backup offer.Don't sell out,go back to the negotiating table and set the bar higher.
The company is using scare tactics to get this thing through.They need this to be over with as soon as possible and will come back to the table to make it work. You can't ask for any more leverage.
What did Bethune publicly say back in C97. He had plenty more ready to offer to the pilots. He was even publicly quoted saying he couldn't believe the pilots voted in the first offer. The company would never come to the table without a backup offer.Don't sell out,go back to the negotiating table and set the bar higher.
The company is using scare tactics to get this thing through.They need this to be over with as soon as possible and will come back to the table to make it work. You can't ask for any more leverage.
But hey. It might work.
Last edited by Airway; 11-25-2012 at 05:25 PM.
11-25-2012 | 05:51 PM
#27
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From: 757 Capt
Leverage? When have you ever had LESS leverage? You have no leverage. Mgmt WANTS you to vote this down, because they know that the NMB will tell the pilot group who just got the most expensive TA in the industry and voted NO to go #### themselves for about a year before they even think about coming back to the table to mediate this thing and tell you to go #### yourselves again with the same TA.
But hey. It might work.
But hey. It might work.
Good argument. We're gonna get screwed so let's screw ourselves. Airtight.
PIPE
11-25-2012 | 06:12 PM
#28
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From: Kickin’ Back
11-25-2012 | 07:30 PM
#29
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From: 2172
Leverage? When have you ever had LESS leverage? You have no leverage. Mgmt WANTS you to vote this down, because they know that the NMB will tell the pilot group who just got the most expensive TA in the industry and voted NO to go #### themselves for about a year before they even think about coming back to the table to mediate this thing and tell you to go #### yourselves again with the same TA.
But hey. It might work.
But hey. It might work.
I'll never vote to outsource my job.
11-26-2012 | 04:45 AM
#30
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From: 737 fo
Boy the hyperbole here!
Let's see???
"substandard" - What is the standard and did you pick and choose what the standard should be?
"At what price?"
Cost? According to the faqs this TA is an overall get. So I have to assume your cost here is one of two things, "This TA does not improve my pay and benefits enough (because it does overall improve both)" and "a TA approved now will cost me advancement in this coming year."
And for EWR737FO, 10 years??? Where do you come up with this stuff.
How long is this TA if ratified and from what date do you calculate the new amendable date? Do you really expect an additional 5-6 years of negotiations beyond this date?
Let's see???
"substandard" - What is the standard and did you pick and choose what the standard should be?
"At what price?"
Cost? According to the faqs this TA is an overall get. So I have to assume your cost here is one of two things, "This TA does not improve my pay and benefits enough (because it does overall improve both)" and "a TA approved now will cost me advancement in this coming year."
And for EWR737FO, 10 years??? Where do you come up with this stuff.
How long is this TA if ratified and from what date do you calculate the new amendable date? Do you really expect an additional 5-6 years of negotiations beyond this date?
