I'd give you a big sloppy kiss if you were here....

 

Exactly. Active working pilots can't accurately predict "career expectations" much less a furloughed guy.

"Career expectations" are a whimsical prediction at best. What percentage of expectations are being factored in for a downsize. what about another furlough? . What about a another "act of god" as mgt likes to call it, that affects the industry? I hope like heck none of this happens, but it could. We are all damn lucky that this merger didn't have a lot of overlap, or we could have been having this discussion over more layoffs instead of how our seniority may play out.

Neither CAL, nor UAL has been immune to the up and down swings of this industry. Ask the guy who retired 2 years after 9/11 after he lost all of his retirement if he "expected" that. Ask a guy who went on strike at EAL and watched his airline dismantled if he "expected" that. Did 99-01 UAL pilots "expect" to be furloughed from the grand airline that United was...heck no, they were hiring like crazy and upgrading guppy captains in 2 years.

I'm starting to ramble and I'm sure you get my point. I think that you have to almost use a "perfect world scenario" to entertain "career expectations" for a working pilot as much of a factor in seniority integration. I also think for a furloughed guy, it will have even less of a factor. I'm probably wrong, but that's just how I see it.

I don't claim to have the answer to "what's fair". I trust that both our groups have put their best guy in place to debate the seniority issue, and we will just have to live with the results whatever they may be.

I'll tell you this. I truly hope that we all have prosperous careers and that NONE of us have to suffer the heartbreak of a furlough. I have been blessed to never have to go through that, and I can only imagine the worry and stress, both financially and emotionally for the pilot and his family that must go along with it.

I will accept my position on the seniority list no matter if it means I'm the guy signing the release or if it means I'll jerk gear for a former LUAL guy.

Cheers to you man...and good holidays

 

We've got the worst workrules among the majors and among many regionals as well. Saying no harms us a great deal in that we remain under this concessionary contract.

 

Of course I am.

 

That is exactly my point. The whole argument from the UAL MEC of the right sizing 737 fleet for the merger

 

All things considered, CAL did right-size for the merger as well. Since the size of UAL and the number of widebody aircraft more than met the expected fleet plan of the new united, there was no need to enhance the careers of CAL pilots with more widebody aircraft.

The 787 order was made in conjunction with UAL's 787 order, simply to secure the rights to the first 50 slots, plus options.

Had we not merged, CAL would have purchased more 767-400 aircraft and 777-200 aircraft.

 

I know one (CO '83) who claims that he's voting NO. But given his moral fiber, or lack thereof, I don't believe anything he says. Doesn't mean he won't vote NO, it just means that what he says doesn't have anything with what he does because he says what he thinks he needs to say, not what he really means.

TW

 

I attended the LAX town hall meeting on Tuesday. I'm putting the best first here. There was an untold amount of entertainment value in listening to Jay Pierce get up and make a syrupy speech about how much he loves this TA. Moments later, I asked one of the negotiating committee guys if he thought Pierce was believing what he was saying, and the answer is unrepeatable in the negative.

I was able to get a goodly sum of my questions answered the night before over adult bevvies and fattening food the previous evening since most of them were enjoying same at a large table that I was sitting at.

There was lots of good information from some refreshingly incredible sources. I didn't like most of what I heard, but at least it wasn't some thrice-circulated, reinvented and tuned & tweaked bizarro-world version of someone's can't-own-it rant. One of my takeaways was that no matter what is in that TA, love it or hate it, those guys did some incredible things, unfortunately with less than incredible results in most areas, though.

I've already voted twice so far, and haven't yet decided if I'm going to vote again yet. Fear not, only,my last vote will count. And I ain't tellin' anybody what it is, either. I'm too old for chest-beating. That gave way to respect for others' opinions long ago.

I hope this turns out whatever way my final version of my vote does. Don't we all!

 

Do you really believe that without the merger CAL had routes and or plans to grow their WB fleet 200%?

Good luck with argument

 

As much as others here believe lual parked almost 100 aircraft to do the same.