Future Vacancy Bids
01-25-2013, 11:44 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,575
Originally Posted by cadetdrivr
Agreed.
But in the case of UCH and UCH's plans for 2013, I think UAL ALPA has a very legitimate reason to "trust but verify."
Later this year "S-UAL" 737-900ERs are scheduled for delivery combined with the retirement of L-UAL 757s. Considering the total absence of a pre-SLI S-UAL 737 training program, IMHO, it's a reasonable concern of UAL ALPA that UCH could attempt to train and staff the 737-900ERs prior to combined operations using its existing S-CAL assets.
But in the case of UCH and UCH's plans for 2013, I think UAL ALPA has a very legitimate reason to "trust but verify."
Later this year "S-UAL" 737-900ERs are scheduled for delivery combined with the retirement of L-UAL 757s. Considering the total absence of a pre-SLI S-UAL 737 training program, IMHO, it's a reasonable concern of UAL ALPA that UCH could attempt to train and staff the 737-900ERs prior to combined operations using its existing S-CAL assets.
01-25-2013, 11:45 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,575
Originally Posted by tailwheel48
I would imagine that in a fair integration, what you could hold before the integration, you should be able to hold after!
Otherwise, the inverse is true, if you can't hold the plane before the integration, why should you be able to hold it after?
Otherwise, the inverse is true, if you can't hold the plane before the integration, why should you be able to hold it after?
01-25-2013, 11:46 AM
#23
Pilot Response
Joined APC: May 2011
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 479
I'm really stuck on the "emotional impact" comment. These missives are almost always written for a larger audience and/or rife with hidden meaning and inferences; but really? "Emotional impact" specific to any one domicile (made up of adults by the way). Other L-UAL domiciles have 737s and L-CAL domiciles have 320s. Pilots in SFO can probably handle this.
The fact still remains that the junior 737 Capt in ORD has a seniority date that would have gotten him furloughed at L-UAL. Emotional impact indeed-deal with the whole group Jay.
The fact still remains that the junior 737 Capt in ORD has a seniority date that would have gotten him furloughed at L-UAL. Emotional impact indeed-deal with the whole group Jay.
01-25-2013, 12:02 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,639
Originally Posted by Ottopilot
There no reason why the new UAL can't train LUAL pilots at IAH in the 737. It's working pretty good so far. No need to spend money on DEN 737 training. Of course, IAH is full and they need more sims, so maybe they want some in DEN?
Prior to combined operations the training and checking of S-UAL pilots must be conducted by active S-UAL seniority list pilots as the old UAL contract remains in force during the interim. Unless some form of relief is granted, UCH will need to spool up to train and staff an entire duplicate S-UAL 737 training department even if they can use a xerox copy of the S-CAL 737 FAA-approved curriculum.
01-25-2013, 12:27 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2012
Posts: 203
Originally Posted by APC225
An LCAL 2005 hire CA totally agrees.
An LUAL 1998 hire FO totally disagrees.
An LUAL 1998 hire FO totally disagrees.
If the merger would not have happened, once recalled to UAL, you would have assumed your position at the bottom of the list. So you would most likely be an A320 F/O.
After the isl is put together, I don't see how you would expect to be too much better off than a junior A320 F/O.
The arbitrator will have to work this all out. I am trying to understand your thinking in trying to justify something better than where you would have been had the merger not happened.
Assuming that you had an airline to come back to and that UAL wasn't pieced out in an auction like Pan Am was.
01-25-2013, 12:30 PM
#26
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: 756 Left Side
Posts: 1,629
Originally Posted by LeeMat
January 25, 2013
Dear Fellow Pilots:
As you are likely aware by now, the company has issued System Bid 14-02 for the Continental Pilots. This System Bid deserves some mention.
The JCBA Section 8, Staffing, specifies that bid awards for United Airlines be Vacancy Bids, very much like the current system under which the United Pilots are familiar. However, the Joint Implementation Team (JIT) was unable to reach agreement on early implementation of the JCBA Section 8 Vacancy bids for the Continental side of the operation. As such, the company utilized the Continental System Bid while transitioning. This should be the last CAL System Bid as all future bids should be fully implemented under the United Pilot Agreement (UPA) Section 8-C Vacancy Bidding provisions. ....
We are United,
Captain Jay Heppner
Chairman, United Master Executive Council
Dear Fellow Pilots:
As you are likely aware by now, the company has issued System Bid 14-02 for the Continental Pilots. This System Bid deserves some mention.
The JCBA Section 8, Staffing, specifies that bid awards for United Airlines be Vacancy Bids, very much like the current system under which the United Pilots are familiar. However, the Joint Implementation Team (JIT) was unable to reach agreement on early implementation of the JCBA Section 8 Vacancy bids for the Continental side of the operation. As such, the company utilized the Continental System Bid while transitioning. This should be the last CAL System Bid as all future bids should be fully implemented under the United Pilot Agreement (UPA) Section 8-C Vacancy Bidding provisions. ....
We are United,
Captain Jay Heppner
Chairman, United Master Executive Council
01-25-2013, 01:00 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: F-16
Posts: 201
Originally Posted by CleCapt
If you are at the bottom of the UAL seniority list, how is it that you expect to not be at a similar relative position, ie towards the bottom, of the new isl.
If the merger would not have happened, once recalled to UAL, you would have assumed your position at the bottom of the list. So you would most likely be an A320 F/O.
After the isl is put together, I don't see how you would expect to be too much better off than a junior A320 F/O.
The arbitrator will have to work this all out. I am trying to understand your thinking in trying to justify something better than where you would have been had the merger not happened.
Assuming that you had an airline to come back to and that UAL wasn't pieced out in an auction like Pan Am was.
If the merger would not have happened, once recalled to UAL, you would have assumed your position at the bottom of the list. So you would most likely be an A320 F/O.
After the isl is put together, I don't see how you would expect to be too much better off than a junior A320 F/O.
The arbitrator will have to work this all out. I am trying to understand your thinking in trying to justify something better than where you would have been had the merger not happened.
Assuming that you had an airline to come back to and that UAL wasn't pieced out in an auction like Pan Am was.
01-25-2013, 01:14 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,071
Originally Posted by Ottopilot
Very true, anything else wouldn't be "fair". It might be a "windfall" otherwise.
01-25-2013, 01:21 PM
#30
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: B737 IAH
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by cadetdrivr
Agreed.
But in the case of UCH and UCH's plans for 2013, I think UAL ALPA has a very legitimate reason to "trust but verify."
Later this year "S-UAL" 737-900ERs are scheduled for delivery combined with the retirement of L-UAL 757s. Considering the total absence of a pre-SLI S-UAL 737 training program, IMHO, it's a reasonable concern of UAL ALPA that UCH could attempt to train and staff the 737-900ERs prior to combined operations using its existing S-CAL assets.
But in the case of UCH and UCH's plans for 2013, I think UAL ALPA has a very legitimate reason to "trust but verify."
Later this year "S-UAL" 737-900ERs are scheduled for delivery combined with the retirement of L-UAL 757s. Considering the total absence of a pre-SLI S-UAL 737 training program, IMHO, it's a reasonable concern of UAL ALPA that UCH could attempt to train and staff the 737-900ERs prior to combined operations using its existing S-CAL assets.
IAH Chief Pilot talked yesterday about just work rule improvement required training was about 800 pilots just for the CAL side.
He stated there will be significant numbers of unfilled vacancies at SLI. They know that and those will just be rolled for the post SLI bid.
Reminder, 270 of those bids are from Aug 2012, and the rest are for projections out 12 months, even though SLI could be in 6 months. They know they need training at IAH and dentk prior to summer.
Admiral
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