Seniority List Petition
06-10-2013 | 02:13 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Peace Love Understanding
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,040
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From: Airbus
Seniority List Petition
Just came across this petition today....
Not sure its going to have much effect if it gets enough votes.
http://www.change.org/petitions/air-...e-isl-proposal
Not sure its going to have much effect if it gets enough votes.
http://www.change.org/petitions/air-...e-isl-proposal
06-10-2013 | 02:34 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,639
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Just came across this petition today....
Not sure its going to have much effect if it gets enough votes.
http://www.change.org/petitions/air-...e-isl-proposal
Not sure its going to have much effect if it gets enough votes.
http://www.change.org/petitions/air-...e-isl-proposal
Once created by the MEC and provided direction, the Merger Committee is autonomous from the MEC for the very reason of elimination of political pressure from petitions such as this.
The pilots that are the most shocked by the process, and the result, are undoubtedly the same ones that ignored their LEC elections thinking "ALPA" was some external body and not themselves.
Last edited by cadetdrivr; 06-10-2013 at 02:49 PM.
06-10-2013 | 03:40 PM
#3
(retired)
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 422
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From: Old, retired, healthy, debt-free, liquid
To quote a satirical strip from my long-gone youth...I believe "Pogo" said it best, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."
Other than a lack of common sense and objectivity, I don't believe a truer statement exists describing airline pilots...and I willingly r one.
06-11-2013 | 07:18 AM
#4
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 15
From: 737 CAPT
I find the first comment at the bottom of the page of that petition interesting:
This pilot is not LOSING LONGEVITY. His longevity is being used (or considered at any rate) under the ALPA merger policy to determine his new SENIORITY at the combined company. Granted, that new seniority will determine what he can bid and hold and therefore what pay rate he makes, but he will still be a 13 year pilot. Looked at in another way: is his 6 year longevity friend from CAL getting 13 year longevity in the new seniority list? No.
UAL merger committee did not follow merger policy and is again not fairly representing the junior pilots at UAL. I am losing 7 years longevity along with all career expectations. A friend hired at CAL with 6 years longevity compared to my 13 years will be placed 1000 numbers senior to me. How is that not a windfall for the CAL pilots?
06-11-2013 | 12:05 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere in a hollowed out hole...yet with broadband
Just came across this petition today....
Not sure its going to have much effect if it gets enough votes.
http://www.change.org/petitions/air-...e-isl-proposal
Not sure its going to have much effect if it gets enough votes.
http://www.change.org/petitions/air-...e-isl-proposal
Your merger committee knows the indisputable facts put forth by the LCAL merger committee, and the LUAL best hope proposal reflects as such...Very telling of the LUAL merger committee expectations...It is what it is
06-11-2013 | 07:53 PM
#6
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,282
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From: A320 Cap
You aren't a student of history, are you? When the LUAL lawyer argued the America West and Delta lists, he employed the same tactic: put forth a list that is realistic and can be defended in court.... NOT a "best hope" proposal. Katz went for the grand slam home run proposal for USAirways and NWA. Lost both badly. We will see how it turns out here, but the LUAL list is absolutely NOT a best hope proposal. If the "indisputable facts" put forth by the LCAL side drove the one-for-one and then staple moonshot, then you are in for a serious surprise. Apply that logic to a merger with Alaska and let me know if it still makes sense.
06-12-2013 | 08:59 AM
#8
Widebody
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 777
Likes: 0
From: 777 CAP
But the time is coming shortly where the arbitrators will ask for input from both sides on the actual structure of the list. And they won't be asking for W2s, retirement plans, grievance lists, CEO hearsay/testimony, SEC filings, number of winglets, etc.
The side that can defend its input based on career expectations, status and category, and longevity in a fair way to both sides to a greater degree will influence the final outcome more.
In regard to UA pilots being mad about the UA proposal; free beer to the first to answer this riddle:
What do you get when both sides are upset with the result?
06-12-2013 | 09:51 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 222
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My experience talking to UA pilots upset with this proposal is that they are falling for the fallacy that this is a negotiation or a bid, where you should ask for what you want, you might get it.
But the time is coming shortly where the arbitrators will ask for input from both sides on the actual structure of the list. And they won't be asking for W2s, retirement plans, grievance lists, CEO hearsay/testimony, SEC filings, number of winglets, etc.
The side that can defend its input based on career expectations, status and category, and longevity in a fair way to both sides to a greater degree will influence the final outcome more.
In regard to UA pilots being mad about the UA proposal; free beer to the first to answer this riddle:
What do you get when both sides are upset with the result?
But the time is coming shortly where the arbitrators will ask for input from both sides on the actual structure of the list. And they won't be asking for W2s, retirement plans, grievance lists, CEO hearsay/testimony, SEC filings, number of winglets, etc.
The side that can defend its input based on career expectations, status and category, and longevity in a fair way to both sides to a greater degree will influence the final outcome more.
In regard to UA pilots being mad about the UA proposal; free beer to the first to answer this riddle:
What do you get when both sides are upset with the result?
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