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09-28-2014 | 05:14 AM
#1941
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 5,152
Likes: 132
MiG21,
Thanks for sharing this info. I'm sure some folks will get hired (who otherwise would not) because of your helpful writeup. People talk a lot about not being arrogant in your interview. Funny thing is, the ultimate arrogance is in a board's part, who decides in 60 mins with you that their negative gut feelings override actual data conveying the opposite. It's done with the intent of finding people "they could spend a four-day with", but an airline interview is a terrible place to try and determine that. Employment and education records, combined with rec letters from people you've flown with for years actually do that rather nicely. Some day, the airlines MAY figure this out (I suspect they won't). But in the mean time, they're stuck hiring people who interview well...which has almost no bearing on how they'll perform on the job as an airline First Officer or Captain. You may find it interesting to read "Thinking, Fast and Slow", which does a nice job of breaking down how the panelists mind were working while making a likely mistake with your rejection. Good luck - you'll fund a better gig in the long run, I'm sure.
Thanks for sharing this info. I'm sure some folks will get hired (who otherwise would not) because of your helpful writeup. People talk a lot about not being arrogant in your interview. Funny thing is, the ultimate arrogance is in a board's part, who decides in 60 mins with you that their negative gut feelings override actual data conveying the opposite. It's done with the intent of finding people "they could spend a four-day with", but an airline interview is a terrible place to try and determine that. Employment and education records, combined with rec letters from people you've flown with for years actually do that rather nicely. Some day, the airlines MAY figure this out (I suspect they won't). But in the mean time, they're stuck hiring people who interview well...which has almost no bearing on how they'll perform on the job as an airline First Officer or Captain. You may find it interesting to read "Thinking, Fast and Slow", which does a nice job of breaking down how the panelists mind were working while making a likely mistake with your rejection. Good luck - you'll fund a better gig in the long run, I'm sure.
09-28-2014 | 07:49 AM
#1943
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
From: West Coast to East Coast
I hope this helps those going into an interview succeed where I failed
I interviewed and was not offered the job, but I was able to get a little feedback from a friend of a friend of a friend. So it turns out I somehow got one of the highest sim and Hogan scores (yeah, Hogan is not simply pass/fail. Apparently there is conclusions drawn from the actual answers selected, and the sim I can only credit to the invaluable prep I did the day prior) but failed the sit down hr part. In a nutshell the reason was one of being too casual, in both body language and conversational style. Do not sit back and cross your legs when speaking (this applies to the panel I had. Other people might expect different things) and don't speak as though you are on equal ground. They will try to make you feel comfortable, but don't get too comfortable because that is what bit me in the ass. Only way I can sum it up is to maybe pretend like you are being audited or ramp checked. I am not a good actor and i fell into the role that I do in the flight deck that seems to disarm others in order to foster good CRM. My reason was one of being too casual, in both body language and conversational style. Do not sit back and cross your legs when speaking (this applies to the panel I had. Other people might expect different things) and don't speak as though you are on equal ground. They will try to make you feel comfortable, but don't get too comfortable because that is what bit me in the ass. Only way I can sum it up is to maybe pretend like you are being audited or ramp checked. I am not a good actor and i fell into the role that I do in the flight deck that seems to disarm others in order to foster good CRM. My assumption is that a pilot would want to hire another pilot who they could get along with on a trip (let the sim part speak for their flying abilities) and so acting stiff and formal didn't compute for me like it should have. Other than that little surprise, everything else was as gouged. Place and people are great. As long as you don't go into the panel trying to make friends you will do better than I.....oh and don't say the word "crap" when describing what a certain thunderstorm was able to kick out of you. Lesson learned.
I interviewed and was not offered the job, but I was able to get a little feedback from a friend of a friend of a friend. So it turns out I somehow got one of the highest sim and Hogan scores (yeah, Hogan is not simply pass/fail. Apparently there is conclusions drawn from the actual answers selected, and the sim I can only credit to the invaluable prep I did the day prior) but failed the sit down hr part. In a nutshell the reason was one of being too casual, in both body language and conversational style. Do not sit back and cross your legs when speaking (this applies to the panel I had. Other people might expect different things) and don't speak as though you are on equal ground. They will try to make you feel comfortable, but don't get too comfortable because that is what bit me in the ass. Only way I can sum it up is to maybe pretend like you are being audited or ramp checked. I am not a good actor and i fell into the role that I do in the flight deck that seems to disarm others in order to foster good CRM. My reason was one of being too casual, in both body language and conversational style. Do not sit back and cross your legs when speaking (this applies to the panel I had. Other people might expect different things) and don't speak as though you are on equal ground. They will try to make you feel comfortable, but don't get too comfortable because that is what bit me in the ass. Only way I can sum it up is to maybe pretend like you are being audited or ramp checked. I am not a good actor and i fell into the role that I do in the flight deck that seems to disarm others in order to foster good CRM. My assumption is that a pilot would want to hire another pilot who they could get along with on a trip (let the sim part speak for their flying abilities) and so acting stiff and formal didn't compute for me like it should have. Other than that little surprise, everything else was as gouged. Place and people are great. As long as you don't go into the panel trying to make friends you will do better than I.....oh and don't say the word "crap" when describing what a certain thunderstorm was able to kick out of you. Lesson learned.
09-28-2014 | 08:46 AM
#1945
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 514
Likes: 0
From: 73 CA EWR
09-28-2014 | 12:43 PM
#1947
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,866
Likes: 0
That's one good way to to look at CRM IMO. Unfortunately, the longer I'm here the less I think they understand CRM. They seem to think it's all about some formalized VVM and mandatory speaking up when there are procedural errors or certain approach gates aren't made. But those things have ALWAYS been required. The biggest detriment to CRM are jerks who they know of, do nothing about, and even move into greater areas of responsibility. I've been in sims with classic CRM events, both as FO and CA, which would have been great debrief items. They went right over the evaluators head with nary a word in the debrief.
09-28-2014 | 12:45 PM
#1948
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 514
Likes: 0
From: 73 CA EWR
That's one good way to to look at CRM IMO. Unfortunately, the longer I'm here the less I think they understand CRM. They seem to think it's all about some formalized VVM and mandatory speaking up when there are procedural errors or certain approach gates aren't made. But those things have ALWAYS been required. The biggest detriment to CRM are jerks who they know of, do nothing about, and even move into greater areas of responsibility. I've been in sims with classic CRM events, both as FO and CA, which would have been great debrief items. They went right over the evaluators head with nary a word in the debrief.
10-02-2014 | 05:56 PM
#1949
On Reserve
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Got the CJO today! Told to expect an 11/11 class date. Initial call on 9/4, Hogan on 9/6, call to set-up interview on 9/8, and interview on 9/26. Did Cage prep but unable to get sim time with FTI nor Pan-Am as they were booked solid. Having 75/76 time helped though I highly recommend not going without the sim prep as I had a hard time without it. Dont over think the Hogan and just be your professional self during the HR portion.
10-05-2014 | 06:55 AM
#1950
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Got the CJO today! Told to expect an 11/11 class date. Initial call on 9/4, Hogan on 9/6, call to set-up interview on 9/8, and interview on 9/26. Did Cage prep but unable to get sim time with FTI nor Pan-Am as they were booked solid. Having 75/76 time helped though I highly recommend not going without the sim prep as I had a hard time without it. Dont over think the Hogan and just be your professional self during the HR portion.
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