Projection
08-24-2013, 07:46 PM
#21
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Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 112
Originally Posted by sonnycrockett
The last sentence makes my point once again. Stay classy cal pilot !
No wonder you think Furlough=robust career
If we see no lawsuits and attempt to decertify ALPA after the award then I will feel bad, but something tells me that some UAL pilots are already getting the lawyers salivating at the upcoming litigation...
08-25-2013, 05:53 AM
#22
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 737 fo
Posts: 908
Originally Posted by oldmako
Do you mean "prediction"?
Who cares? And if things go the way the UAL MEC likes, how many lawsuits will the CAL pilots file?
Who cares?
Authoring posts which intend to give a poke at the other team makes you a troll.
The unity train never left the station thanks to the pay banding issue and your teams insistence on holding their breath until we capitulated. Of course, that all looks completely planned now given the surge in growth by the CAL side thanks to UAL capital. You know, that 5 billion we had in the bank even though we were at deaths door and all that.
Perhaps if the SLI goes equally lousy for both sides, the train may begin to chug as the company jerrymanders the planes and bases and porks things up further.
Have fun.
Who cares? And if things go the way the UAL MEC likes, how many lawsuits will the CAL pilots file?
Who cares?
Authoring posts which intend to give a poke at the other team makes you a troll.
The unity train never left the station thanks to the pay banding issue and your teams insistence on holding their breath until we capitulated. Of course, that all looks completely planned now given the surge in growth by the CAL side thanks to UAL capital. You know, that 5 billion we had in the bank even though we were at deaths door and all that.
Perhaps if the SLI goes equally lousy for both sides, the train may begin to chug as the company jerrymanders the planes and bases and porks things up further.
Have fun.
08-25-2013, 06:05 AM
#24
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Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: 747 Captain, retired
Posts: 928
Originally Posted by Kilder
Wait a second...I just pointed how your attempt at trying to make a point was erroneous and somehow you're a class act??
No wonder you think Furlough=robust career
If we see no lawsuits and attempt to decertify ALPA after the award then I will feel bad, but something tells me that some UAL pilots are already getting the lawyers salivating at the upcoming litigation...
No wonder you think Furlough=robust career
If we see no lawsuits and attempt to decertify ALPA after the award then I will feel bad, but something tells me that some UAL pilots are already getting the lawyers salivating at the upcoming litigation...
08-25-2013, 06:27 AM
#25
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Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 645
Originally Posted by Jaded N Cynical
Did they get the SLI changed???
That DFR is a different animal all together. 11 years and counting and has it materially helped any TWA pilot?? After all the dust settles and the attorneys are paid it will be a pittance that ends up in the hands of the individual affected pilots.
The only winners are the lawyers and I know what matters most is billable hours. Step right up and file your law suit. Lawyers like fancy cars too.
That DFR is a different animal all together. 11 years and counting and has it materially helped any TWA pilot?? After all the dust settles and the attorneys are paid it will be a pittance that ends up in the hands of the individual affected pilots.
The only winners are the lawyers and I know what matters most is billable hours. Step right up and file your law suit. Lawyers like fancy cars too.
The lawyers are working on a contingency and will no doubt make a lot of money, but the subject was will the pilots be better off for having filed a lawsuit. The answer is clearly yes. It may have taken years, but the TWA pilots prevailed and are presently calculating damages. They will be made whole by ALPA for not being fairly represented, and at some point in the future, ALPA will realize that when they won the right to represnt a pilot group, they have the obligation to represent all of them equally.
08-25-2013, 07:37 AM
#26
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Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 264
Will it change the American seniority list? No.
Will the TWA pilots be made whole?.....doubt it. I'm guessing they will be lucky to see 10 cents on the dollar by the time it reaches their hands.
My whole point is rarely if ever does a lawsuit change a federally arbitrated, "agreed to" binding agreement. While many will point to USAirways as an example of proving this wrong, that simply isn't true. The hold up is one side refuses to negotiate so the list will not see the light of day. The SLI will follow the USAirways pilots, even into the merger with AA. There will not be a do over because one side disagrees.
Will the TWA pilots be made whole?.....doubt it. I'm guessing they will be lucky to see 10 cents on the dollar by the time it reaches their hands.
My whole point is rarely if ever does a lawsuit change a federally arbitrated, "agreed to" binding agreement. While many will point to USAirways as an example of proving this wrong, that simply isn't true. The hold up is one side refuses to negotiate so the list will not see the light of day. The SLI will follow the USAirways pilots, even into the merger with AA. There will not be a do over because one side disagrees.
08-25-2013, 08:08 AM
#27
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Joined APC: May 2009
Position: The GF of FUPM
Posts: 3,073
Originally Posted by sleeves
So because we do not agree, and you lose the argument (pay banding) then unity is destroyed?? I see, as long as we do as you want then you are on board. That is not unity.
The unity issue is framed by many instances, not just the idiotic pay banding compromise.
Don't forget about the training debacle when the CAL MEC decided to thumb their noses at us when our training and procedures underwent wholesale and idiotic changes nearly by fiat Opportunity lost, division created.
Don't forget about the chance to put the screws to the company during the profit sharing debacle. Opportunity lost, and division created.
Don't forget about the numerous times during JCBA negotiations JPOS agreed to agree with the UAL MEC and then instantly changed his tune the minute they were in front of the company negotiators or the times when our moves were telegraphed to the company ahead of time.
Don't forget about Ben's letter and now Oscars "press to test" on the other forum.
Don't forget about LUAL MIGS now flying for CAL getting tossed out of a union meeting.
I'm sure that there are more, these are just the ones that pop into my head. Perhaps some others will add to the list.
And your SLI proposal, which puts guys with 15-16 years of longevity behind your recent hires is simply idiotic and not worth comment. Basically to us its an extended middle finger and seniority grab.
08-25-2013, 08:08 AM
#28
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
Originally Posted by Jaded N Cynical
Will it change the American seniority list? No.
Will the TWA pilots be made whole?.....doubt it. I'm guessing they will be lucky to see 10 cents on the dollar by the time it reaches their hands.
My whole point is rarely if ever does a lawsuit change a federally arbitrated, "agreed to" binding agreement. While many will point to USAirways as an example of proving this wrong, that simply isn't true. The hold up is one side refuses to negotiate so the list will not see the light of day. The SLI will follow the USAirways pilots, even into the merger with AA. There will not be a do over because one side disagrees.
Will the TWA pilots be made whole?.....doubt it. I'm guessing they will be lucky to see 10 cents on the dollar by the time it reaches their hands.
My whole point is rarely if ever does a lawsuit change a federally arbitrated, "agreed to" binding agreement. While many will point to USAirways as an example of proving this wrong, that simply isn't true. The hold up is one side refuses to negotiate so the list will not see the light of day. The SLI will follow the USAirways pilots, even into the merger with AA. There will not be a do over because one side disagrees.
Some jury also awarded a lady $20 million for spilling coffee but she never got that money. It's not over until it's over.
08-25-2013, 08:16 AM
#29
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Joined APC: May 2009
Position: The GF of FUPM
Posts: 3,073
Liebeck v. McDonalds
No. You're off by 17.3M. She was awarded 2.7 million but that is not the whole story. McDonalds had an opportunity to settle, but chose to litigate. They lost in large part because they were such tools during the lead up to the trial. The jury went nuts with the punitive award because they were sick of what McDonals had done.
Like most fascinating headlines, you only get about one percent of the whole story. The WSJ wrote an excellent piece which detailed the case if you care to read it. If not, here's the Cliff Notes version. WIKI doesn't to the whole story justice.
Liebeck v. McDonald's Restaurants - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
No. You're off by 17.3M. She was awarded 2.7 million but that is not the whole story. McDonalds had an opportunity to settle, but chose to litigate. They lost in large part because they were such tools during the lead up to the trial. The jury went nuts with the punitive award because they were sick of what McDonals had done.
Like most fascinating headlines, you only get about one percent of the whole story. The WSJ wrote an excellent piece which detailed the case if you care to read it. If not, here's the Cliff Notes version. WIKI doesn't to the whole story justice.
Liebeck v. McDonald's Restaurants - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Last edited by oldmako; 08-25-2013 at 08:26 AM.
08-25-2013, 08:17 AM
#30
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Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: 787 Captain
Posts: 1,512
Originally Posted by Jaded N Cynical
Will it change the American seniority list? No.
Will the TWA pilots be made whole?.....doubt it. I'm guessing they will be lucky to see 10 cents on the dollar by the time it reaches their hands.
My whole point is rarely if ever does a lawsuit change a federally arbitrated, "agreed to" binding agreement. While many will point to USAirways as an example of proving this wrong, that simply isn't true. The hold up is one side refuses to negotiate so the list will not see the light of day. The SLI will follow the USAirways pilots, even into the merger with AA. There will not be a do over because one side disagrees.
Will the TWA pilots be made whole?.....doubt it. I'm guessing they will be lucky to see 10 cents on the dollar by the time it reaches their hands.
My whole point is rarely if ever does a lawsuit change a federally arbitrated, "agreed to" binding agreement. While many will point to USAirways as an example of proving this wrong, that simply isn't true. The hold up is one side refuses to negotiate so the list will not see the light of day. The SLI will follow the USAirways pilots, even into the merger with AA. There will not be a do over because one side disagrees.
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