Furloughed Pilots Update Issue #37
08-29-2013, 09:03 PM
#12
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Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Left - Dodge Caravan
Posts: 357
Originally Posted by jetlink
I was replying to the post from other topic, but I think it will relate well to this one:
Pilots that have accepted offer as a new hire in L-CAL are not recalled L-UAL pilots; however, according TA from 2012, those pilots that have been trained or, are currently in training, even though on B737, will be considered active pilot on ISL and therefore recalled in place, since all equipment will be consider United. After implementation of SLI, there is no more L-CAL or L-UAL, pilots or equipment, there is simple United fleet and seniority list. Those that are already here, are United pilots in their respective seniority position, the rest of the furloughed pilots will receive and official recall notice and call.
This is how I understand the provision of the TA.
Have your shrink visit booked in advanced, since there will be a lot of pilots confused, upset, and in result depressed after SLI. :-)
UPA December 2012:
LOA 25 Merger Transition Issues
2. s/United Pilots Offered s/Continental Jobs:
s/United pilots who were offered employment at s/Continental in accordance with paragraph 7.B of the Transition and Process Agreement dated September 26, 2010 will not be considered to be on Involuntary Furlough for purposes of Section 5-B-1-a-(1) of the Agreement.
Pilots that have accepted offer as a new hire in L-CAL are not recalled L-UAL pilots; however, according TA from 2012, those pilots that have been trained or, are currently in training, even though on B737, will be considered active pilot on ISL and therefore recalled in place, since all equipment will be consider United. After implementation of SLI, there is no more L-CAL or L-UAL, pilots or equipment, there is simple United fleet and seniority list. Those that are already here, are United pilots in their respective seniority position, the rest of the furloughed pilots will receive and official recall notice and call.
This is how I understand the provision of the TA.
Have your shrink visit booked in advanced, since there will be a lot of pilots confused, upset, and in result depressed after SLI. :-)
UPA December 2012:
LOA 25 Merger Transition Issues
2. s/United Pilots Offered s/Continental Jobs:
s/United pilots who were offered employment at s/Continental in accordance with paragraph 7.B of the Transition and Process Agreement dated September 26, 2010 will not be considered to be on Involuntary Furlough for purposes of Section 5-B-1-a-(1) of the Agreement.
Jet Link,
Thanks for looking, but that won't work.
The bolded text in your post ended just a little early so I continued it a little. Re-read the next few words; for purposes of Section 5-B-1-a-(1)
5-B = Limitations on Hours of Service
Yep, that means the company was allowed to continue to allow higher line values to pad those paychecks and delay L-UAL recalls after JCBA signing while L-UAL pilots were on furlough. Nothing more, and nothing less.
While the truth is many L-UAL at L-CAL may want to just assume a new number, there are numerous written assurances from ALPA that full recall rights will not be lost by taking any temporary job offers at Skywest or CAL.
Honestly, if you find something that will hold water in court, please post it.
V/R
SP
08-30-2013, 03:03 AM
#13
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by cadetdrivr
Oh sure, there is a difference today.
But after SLI what is it? Please be specific.
But after SLI what is it? Please be specific.
08-30-2013, 04:04 AM
#14
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Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,639
Originally Posted by Madmagpilot
Specifics for my status, once recalled I go from furlough status to mil leave, ID comes back, jump seat is now available, B&C contributions start, etc There are several LUAL pilots that are under the same staus
08-30-2013, 06:43 AM
#15
Peace Love Understanding
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: Airbus
Posts: 1,040
Originally Posted by SONORA PASS
Thanks for looking, but that won't work.
While the truth is many L-UAL at L-CAL may want to just assume a new number, there are numerous written assurances from ALPA that full recall rights will not be lost by taking any temporary job offers at Skywest or CAL.
Honestly, if you find something that will hold water in court, please post it.
While the truth is many L-UAL at L-CAL may want to just assume a new number, there are numerous written assurances from ALPA that full recall rights will not be lost by taking any temporary job offers at Skywest or CAL.
Honestly, if you find something that will hold water in court, please post it.
What exactly is there recall to? Does it even make sense that the company is going to call pilots who are already flying and offer them a job back? That's like calling a pilot already hired and offering them a position as a new hire.
The latest MEC blast mail covered this. The company as well. There will be two more furloughed pilot updates over then next week that will explain all of this in detail.
Come Tuesday the furloughees on the property are "recalled".
As far as court, when ALPA and the company say something is that way, I don't think your vague recollection of what you were "told" or how you believe it should be is going to stand up in court.
08-30-2013, 07:47 AM
#16
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Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Left - Dodge Caravan
Posts: 357
Originally Posted by LAX Pilot
If a L-UAL pilot wanted his recall rights in that way, they should have not accepted employment at CAL. If they had gone to Skywest, they can bypass. But there won't be a CAL this time next week. Those LUAL pilots are back on property. They are effectively recalled. We won't be operating as two separate pilot groups within an airline.
What exactly is there recall to? Does it even make sense that the company is going to call pilots who are already flying and offer them a job back? That's like calling a pilot already hired and offering them a position as a new hire.
The latest MEC blast mail covered this. The company as well. There will be two more furloughed pilot updates over then next week that will explain all of this in detail.
Come Tuesday the furloughees on the property are "recalled".
As far as court, when ALPA and the company say something is that way, I don't think your vague recollection of what you were "told" or how you believe it should be is going to stand up in court.
What exactly is there recall to? Does it even make sense that the company is going to call pilots who are already flying and offer them a job back? That's like calling a pilot already hired and offering them a position as a new hire.
The latest MEC blast mail covered this. The company as well. There will be two more furloughed pilot updates over then next week that will explain all of this in detail.
Come Tuesday the furloughees on the property are "recalled".
As far as court, when ALPA and the company say something is that way, I don't think your vague recollection of what you were "told" or how you believe it should be is going to stand up in court.
Who said anything about "vague recollections"? I did not. I mentioned WRITTEN assurances directly from ALPA which are anything but vague. Last time I used some saved emails, the company and ALPA legal both agreed that they would stand up in court and agreed to settle before it even went.
I agree with the procedure listed above, but there are several details that are missing. There are some rights that those on V/F are contractually owed. The details are not fully out, so we will have to wait and see, but ALPA should not allow the company to cut any more corners with the furloughed pilots.
SP
08-30-2013, 08:31 AM
#17
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: 756 Left Side
Posts: 1,629
Originally Posted by LAX Pilot
...
But there won't be a CAL this time next week. Those LUAL pilots are back on property. They are effectively recalled. We won't be operating as two separate pilot groups within an airline.
...
But there won't be a CAL this time next week. Those LUAL pilots are back on property. They are effectively recalled. We won't be operating as two separate pilot groups within an airline.
...
Come Wed (if The List is out), I and every other LCAL Pilot will still be referring to our old C02 for many contract issues.
Same will be said for the coming months into next year.
Numerous sections of the JCBA have implementation dates that are yet to be determined.
What happens to a LUAL Furloughee/LCAL NewHire? He or she (might) move ahead of some on their respective BES.. but which old contract do they fall under?
Hopefully at this time next week the ISL chapter of this merger is complete and we continue to move forward..
BUT, this "merger" won't be complete for at least another year.
Only when ever pilot is operating under the new JCBA, every section of the JCBA is implemented, and every pilot can fly all the planes in their respective BES.. will we be merged.
Motch
08-30-2013, 08:53 AM
#18
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Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Left - Dodge Caravan
Posts: 357
Originally Posted by horrido27
Actually, we will.
Come Wed (if The List is out), I and every other LCAL Pilot will still be referring to our old C02 for many contract issues.
Same will be said for the coming months into next year.
Numerous sections of the JCBA have implementation dates that are yet to be determined.
What happens to a LUAL Furloughee/LCAL NewHire? He or she (might) move ahead of some on their respective BES.. but which old contract do they fall under?
Hopefully at this time next week the ISL chapter of this merger is complete and we continue to move forward..
BUT, this "merger" won't be complete for at least another year.
Only when ever pilot is operating under the new JCBA, every section of the JCBA is implemented, and every pilot can fly all the planes in their respective BES.. will we be merged.
Motch
Come Wed (if The List is out), I and every other LCAL Pilot will still be referring to our old C02 for many contract issues.
Same will be said for the coming months into next year.
Numerous sections of the JCBA have implementation dates that are yet to be determined.
What happens to a LUAL Furloughee/LCAL NewHire? He or she (might) move ahead of some on their respective BES.. but which old contract do they fall under?
Hopefully at this time next week the ISL chapter of this merger is complete and we continue to move forward..
BUT, this "merger" won't be complete for at least another year.
Only when ever pilot is operating under the new JCBA, every section of the JCBA is implemented, and every pilot can fly all the planes in their respective BES.. will we be merged.
Motch
V/R
SP
09-01-2013, 06:25 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: EWR 777 FO
Posts: 378
Originally Posted by horrido27
Actually, we will.
Come Wed (if The List is out), I and every other LCAL Pilot will still be referring to our old C02 for many contract issues.
Same will be said for the coming months into next year.
Numerous sections of the JCBA have implementation dates that are yet to be determined.
What happens to a LUAL Furloughee/LCAL NewHire? He or she (might) move ahead of some on their respective BES.. but which old contract do they fall under?
Hopefully at this time next week the ISL chapter of this merger is complete and we continue to move forward..
BUT, this "merger" won't be complete for at least another year.
Only when ever pilot is operating under the new JCBA, every section of the JCBA is implemented, and every pilot can fly all the planes in their respective BES.. will we be merged.
Motch
Come Wed (if The List is out), I and every other LCAL Pilot will still be referring to our old C02 for many contract issues.
Same will be said for the coming months into next year.
Numerous sections of the JCBA have implementation dates that are yet to be determined.
What happens to a LUAL Furloughee/LCAL NewHire? He or she (might) move ahead of some on their respective BES.. but which old contract do they fall under?
Hopefully at this time next week the ISL chapter of this merger is complete and we continue to move forward..
BUT, this "merger" won't be complete for at least another year.
Only when ever pilot is operating under the new JCBA, every section of the JCBA is implemented, and every pilot can fly all the planes in their respective BES.. will we be merged.
Motch
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