Monkeyfly

Why, specifically, does the Company love it?

Is it the equivalent of "Continental Blend" vs. Starbucks?

reCALcitrant

Don't lump us all in Sunvox. Everybody needs to try in stand in the other mans shoes. Perspective is a powerful tool. I've been talking to a few CAL folks that aren't upset about the award. Unity has to be the solution for our future.

LAX Pilot

Joe,

No need to argue this. We already settled this with the arbitrators who decided you were right. I even think I saw your name in the decision.

You'll NEVER stop hearing their tale of woe.

Go have some beers mang.

LAX

LAX Pilot

I try every day.....

I really wish it would work for me, OTHER than looking at the messages.

SEDPA

Please tell me exactly how a non-merged L-UAL was going to add 500+ jobs in 2010 to 2012 ... Exactly how was that going to happen. Don't confuse this simple question with your expectation to share the UCH growth at s-CAL ... that has already been determined by three supposedly neutrals.

Madmagpilot

SEDA: So the 500 jobs equates to a 10.8% growth at S-CAL. Thats amazing since there was no mandatory retirement. Any other airline that grew that much over the last two years? What enabled S-CAL to have such phenomenal growth?

jsled

It just doesn't matter. You were a furloughed Cal pilot when this merger went down and now you're at the bottom of the tank. Deal with it. The time for talk is over. The arbs have rendered a fair and equitable list. It's done. Time to move on.

Sled

Sunvox

Please try to keep an open mind, I am not trying to put you down nor do I believe I am looking at this through my "United" glasses . . .

The fact is that in 2008 Delta and Northwest merged. Their new combined market share made them an incredible competitor, and not coincidentally that is exactly when Continental began losing money. In fact for the next 9 quarters following the merger of Delta and Northwest, Continental airlines lost money while at the same time United managed to continue earning money. Why was that? We can never know for certain, but what was clear and what your CEO testified to in front of congress was that neither United nor Continental were doing well and the best chance they had for competing successfully was merging.

The point that Lax, Axl, JohnHale, myself and most of the other United APC posters have been hoping to get across to the Continental pilots is NOT that United would have grown 10% without Continental, but that neither of us could possibly have grown 10% between 2010 and 2013 without the merger. We can argue 'til the cows come home about how things might have been, but the most important fact to remember is that WE grew together better than either of us could have done alone. If you believe in your heart of hearts that all the post merger growth at Continental would have come regardless of the merger than I am afraid we will all have a very long career together.

Your future is bright regardless of the ISL decision so what will holding a grudge against the United pilots gain you?

Zoomie

No, it's not the problem, it's the truth.

Neither CAL or UAL would have "gone under" had the merger not occurred. We would have both been fine. Are we "a better entity" with the merger. On paper, we sure are. Now we have to actually perform up to those expectations.

As for the thought that CAL was so fu#$ed if it hadn't been for United...just take a look at USAir. They were the worst off of all the Legacy carriers back in 2008 and they were losing more money than anyone else, even with their low cost structure. AA was about to declare bankruptcy. We would have been fine without a merger, both companies.

Had the merger between CAL and UAL not happened, would UAL/USAir be approved? It was shot down once by the DOJ, so we'll never know. The DOJ says AA and USAir are just fine now that they are recovering from the recession. They argue they can't compete with Delta and United now. We know that's BS since Jetblue still competes. Alaska still competes. Spirit still competes. ****, do they really think they are just going to fold if a merger doesn't happen?

It's always better to be the bigger entity, since you have more market share and can control the industry more that way.

L-UAL argues that since CAL didn't have financing for all of the aircraft orders we had coming, that we were just going to tell Boeing that even though Air Ethiopia can afford to buy their aircraft, Continental Airlines won't be able to. Of course not, they were looking for a better deal. They would have gotten the airplanes anyway, but probably would have to pay a higher interest rate on them. There was nothing stopping those airplanes from showing up on property.

Would we have started HUBs in SFO, ORD, DEN, and LAX without the merger? I can argue LAX, but probably not the others. Just like if you had merged with USAir, they would have put aircraft in those UAL hubs too. We had those aircraft on order, and absent a merger, we would have grown somewhere. Down in the trenches, we weren't privy to all the growth locations, but it was planned.

More data... The 787 WOULD have been on property 3 years earlier had it not been for BOEING. Those were growth A/C (minus the 767s that were parked after the merger) that was part of our previous contract negotiation. Now we'll never get that growth for years to come if ever since we will be using those 787s most likely to replace aging A/C at United.

When I went to job fairs back in 2007, where were all the long lines? They were at Delta, Continental, and Airtran. United wasn't even a blip on the radar since they had no growth whatsoever and were stagnant. When the United window opened up, it was a lot like the USAir window, no one really was that enthusiastic about it at the time, but sure, maybe I'll throw a courtesy app at them, just like Jetblue to get out of whatever current situation they were in.

I know everyone wanted to go to UAL back in 1999-2001, but that changed after 9/11. UAL didn't recover till about 2007, then they had so much debt they had to put the spare parts of their aircraft as collateral to pay the bills.

Don't try and change history or Deny that UAL guys were ecstatic they were going to Merge with CAL, the only growing legacy, versus USAir, who had been shrinking for years at that point.

SEDPA

It was a simple question ... I have already heard all the UAL talking heads profuse their Devine beliefs ... How was L-UAL going to add 500+ jobs in 2010 to 2012 without the CAL merger? Please share your abounding wisdom, and sure throw in an insult or 2.