Pre-post ISL percentages
09-09-2013, 09:57 AM
#151
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Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,007
I just listened to days of bile hatred from a CAL Pilot.... I smiled and took his BS in the interest of safety. His anger was based on poor expectations, a incompetent CAL union, "Sugarland" Chairman and a scab/management friendly pilot culture.... with little understanding and no regard for UAL pilots...
CAL pilots... figure this out before you show up to fly. UAL pilots have done nothing to you. Your scab/management friendly union failed you. Even Sugarland told you.. "not one email or communication about the process." I didn't see one complaint from the CAL guys about the CAL proposed ISL. The arbs rejected the CAL proposal.. meaning your union failed you. The arbs accepted the UAL proposal as fair. Time to move on.
Figure this out before you fly.... don't want to hear it.
CAL pilots... figure this out before you show up to fly. UAL pilots have done nothing to you. Your scab/management friendly union failed you. Even Sugarland told you.. "not one email or communication about the process." I didn't see one complaint from the CAL guys about the CAL proposed ISL. The arbs rejected the CAL proposal.. meaning your union failed you. The arbs accepted the UAL proposal as fair. Time to move on.
Figure this out before you fly.... don't want to hear it.
09-09-2013, 10:04 AM
#152
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,866
Originally Posted by Snarge
I just listened to four days of bile hatred from a CAL Pilot.... I smiled and took his BS in the interest of safety. His anger was based on poor expectations, a incompetent CAL union and "Sugarland" Chairman and a scab/management friendly pilot culture.... with little understanding and no regard for UAL pilots...
CAL pilots... figure this out before you show up to fly.
CAL pilots... figure this out before you show up to fly.
09-09-2013, 10:09 AM
#153
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Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: EWR B737FO
Posts: 225
Originally Posted by reCALcitrant
True. But not on the backs of others. I made out like a bandit when I got hired in 2005 at the front of a huge hiring wave at a solid airline. I've enjoyed a very healthy good paying career so far with no downturns in my bank account. I consider myself fortunate for that.
I think the award was fair. Would you have thought fair was moving me from 737 captain to bottom 10%? People taking pay cuts because of the merger? In the arbs model, nobody did.
Fair is somewhere in the middle and I feel the arbitrators found it pretty well.
Cheers. I look forward to flying with you all.
I think the award was fair. Would you have thought fair was moving me from 737 captain to bottom 10%? People taking pay cuts because of the merger? In the arbs model, nobody did.
Fair is somewhere in the middle and I feel the arbitrators found it pretty well.
Cheers. I look forward to flying with you all.
You are certainly the minority of the CAL pilots, I've taked with since the award. As a matter of fact, I've not heard one pilot make your statement. When the board took away longevity credit for our 87/88 hires, it set in a motion a domino effect for the entire list...not just those in question. The first half of the list will also be UA dominated...look at the DOBs? I think most of us expected the back half of the UA active list to get a big bump because of there longevity advantage...and they did...but mixing 817 furloughed pilots ahead of activeCAL pilots, that were working and have been working before and since the Merger date is outrageous. Maybe you made out alright, but You have totally missed what happened to our pilot groupas a WHOLE if you really believe it was fair and equiteable.
I do not hold this decison against any UA pilot...they are good sh...t mostly, and look forward to putting this behind us. The UA MC and merger committee, made the best argument to the ALPA sanctioned arbitrators and they won....fair and done
09-09-2013, 10:21 AM
#154
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: B777
Posts: 586
Originally Posted by beeker
I can't believe people are still interested in this "who's company was more awesome prior to the merger" and "who got screwed more due to the ISL" discussion. The companies are merged and are not going to be unmerged, the ISL is complete, move on.
For everyone that is arguing how bad you personally have been screwed by the ISL, well pity party for you. Yes you got screwed more then every everbody else, we are sorry, nobody cares. No matter how hard you cry, still nobody will care and nothing will change.
For those who feel they had the better company pre merger, yes you did, congratulations, you were awesome because you did get hired at your better airline. Still nobody cares, please continue to tell me how awesome your airline was more awesomer then the other one you are convincing me. I will even help you. For those that thought United was a better airline pre merger, yes I agree you are awesome. For those that thought Continental was a better airline pre merger, yes I agree you are awesome.
For everyone that is arguing how bad you personally have been screwed by the ISL, well pity party for you. Yes you got screwed more then every everbody else, we are sorry, nobody cares. No matter how hard you cry, still nobody will care and nothing will change.
For those who feel they had the better company pre merger, yes you did, congratulations, you were awesome because you did get hired at your better airline. Still nobody cares, please continue to tell me how awesome your airline was more awesomer then the other one you are convincing me. I will even help you. For those that thought United was a better airline pre merger, yes I agree you are awesome. For those that thought Continental was a better airline pre merger, yes I agree you are awesome.
......and you are awesome! Barney hugs all around.
09-09-2013, 10:49 AM
#157
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Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 234
Originally Posted by Airhoss
Please make sure and use your May 2010 percentage as your original when comparing to your new one....
All those delay tactics seem to have backfired.
All those delay tactics seem to have backfired.
09-09-2013, 04:42 PM
#159
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Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: 787 CA
Posts: 425
Originally Posted by Shrek
Why? They count........ Suck it.
09-09-2013, 07:30 PM
#160
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,833
Originally Posted by 13n144e
I think the point is that they really aren't included in the denominator used to determine comparative relative seniority. Using 12155 generally yields the 1 or 2 percent decrease you keep hearing about, which is unfortunately, inaccurate. We didn't have furloughees on our 2010 list so we can only count active pilots. That number seems to be about 11300 or 11400 which yields a much larger percentage drop - about 5 or 6 percent depending where you are on the list. Even this isn't accurate because now we're using 2013 numbers. Anyway the point is you have to compare apples to apples and you can't include numbers representing individuals who aren't on property, can't bid and have no bearing on your effective seniority.
The only one that matters is the new one you have now and your age. I made the mistake of looking at my rainbow chart (I kid you not - lol) of what my career progression till retirement and it ain't pretty for me either. No WB CPT for this jack hole with the new integrated list.
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