bearcat

The problem of our PBS is quite simple. The g line. PBS has to produce a line for every person above that line. With that being said the company, albeit with supposed union oversight, can manipulate that line very easily. ie staffing bad, more people work more with less days off to meet the g line. It doesn't compute from the #1 guy down, it computes for the whole category. It sucks, I hate it, ual is going to hate it more.

GoCats67

How would UA have added any jobs???? you have been drinking the Kool-Aid served by your negotiating team. Do you really think that aircraft orders create jobs? Getting narrowbodies (whether Airbus or Boeing) would not be an issue. Heck even the vaunted 787 is available. Norwegian airlines just took delovery of their first one and they didn't have any orders for the aircraft until well after Sub UA had the orders.

Where did those 500ish jobs come from that you speak of? lets look at the flying.
In late April of this year I pulled down the entire flight schedule for a day (a Monday) and looked at all the narrow body flying being done of the non-augmented type. (nothing like the opening presentation by the CAL Negotiating Team to motivate me) All of the below information is taken straight from the actual schedule in the computer. If you have some time and your hand you can update it for Sept info by using the FL feature in Unimatic. All CAL and UA flights are available.

What I was interested in was the "shift" in flying between the subsidiaries. IE how much flying was Sub-UA doing on Legacy CAL routes (IAH-EWR for instance) and how much flying was Sub-CAL doing on Legacy UA routes (ORD-SFO for instance) Figuring that without this merger I had no expectation to fly IAH-EWR (or similar flights out of IAH) and the CAL folks had no expectation to fly ORD-SFO. (or similar flights out of ORD)

Here is what it showed

(737 and 757) CAL flying out of:
ORD 340 hours a day (arrivals and departures)
IAD 185 hours a day (arrivals and departures)
DEN 200 hours a day (arrivals and departures)
SFO 350 hours a day (arrivals and departures)
LAX 263 hours a day (arrivals and departures)

(319, 320, 757) UAL flying out of:
IAH 432 hours a day (arrivals and departures)
EWR 249 hours a day (arrivals and departures)
CLE 49 hours a day (arrivals and departures)

When you subtract the flying that UA is doing on CAL routes from the flying that CAL is doing on UA routes you end up with a net benefit to the CAL side of almost 700 hours per day!!!!

At 12 hours per airplane per day that is 58 airplanes worth of flying!!!!!
at 7 crews per airlplane (a fairly good ballpark for unaugmented manpower planning) that is 400+ Captains and 400+ First Officers

All of those positions have been filled by Legacy CAL pilots but are being flown on the Legacy United Routes.

The bigger issue is that the airline has not grown by a net of 58 narrowbody airplanes! The actaul net growth is down around 30ish airplanes. So, the 10% downsizing of IAH, that was inevitable based on the economics- see Smisek's comments, has been more than compensated by the available growth on the legacy UAL routes.

The amount of hours being flown on Legacy CAL routes by the narrowbody fleets has gone down since the merger date, whereas the amount of hours being flown on the Legacy UA routes has gone up. Without this merger, the downsizing of the legacy CAL routes still would have happened, but there wouldn't have been the legacy UA routes there to compensate (plus extra) for the loss.

The shift in Widebody/Augmented flying was about 80 hours per day in favor of the UA pilots (opposite of the narrowbody). That has dwindled to almost nothing now that the 787 is flying internationally. DEN-NRT, LAX-NRT, LAX-PVG. Additionally virtually all of the growth on the Widebody/augmented CAL routes has been due to UA Slots/Star Alliance slots that most certainly wouldn't have happened without the merger. CAL has gone to 8 Arrivals/Departures a day in/out of LHR, when they were at 3 prior to the merger. They have also increased frequencies to FRA. Even giving CAL the full benefit for those routes, we are now at a virtual "push" on Widebody/augmented flying benefity but you still have the huge benefit that the CAL side has by flying the narrowbody UA routes.

So, while everyone can argue about career expectations and whether or not the junior guys at CAL are getting a raw deal, keep in mind that what has ACTUALLY happened with the flying supports the argument that UA had a huge potential for growth in their jobs, while CAL did not.

The ISL is done and I don't expect anybody to be happy about it, but using what has happened with bids since the merger started to justify anything is absolutely ridiculous. Who got the bids is not in dispute, Where the jobs came from that created the need for the bids is what matters. What has happened with the actual flying tells much more about what the career expectations were of the two parties and where the job creation of the last 3 plus years really came from.

boxer6

To further your point 67, straight from the AUG IAH CP update.
Flying levels between the NB fleets departures for the month of OCT 2013
(My apologies for the impossible to read formatting)



TOTAL UA flying in CAL HUBS 4426
TOTAL CO flying in UA HUBS 9084


Guys, be intellectually honest. While I would say the combined network has some influence, the UA network is where the vast majority of the departures are. Remember, after they parked the Guppies, express flying increased double digit percentages. The NETWORK remained and the DEMAND remained...there were just fewer seats available. The jobs were always there until the lift was available after the merger...which is, as we see, is EXACTLY what happened.

jsled

Sunvox

Best post since the SLI decision! Good investigative work!

LAX Pilot

^^^ But CAL was going to fly these UAL routes as part of their growth plan. You know the one where they furlough pilots right before the big expansion to trick other airlines.