Probably won't do as much night flying though.

Those west coast to Hub red-eyes are being flown by someone. And, I know I've done my share, and I see about one a month. But, it's not every night. I reckon those Fed Ex and UPS guys don't even keep sunglasses in their bag.


The money is starting to be a bit better at United now due to Delta plus. So that's a plus for UAL. Fairly diversified fleet and missions, so that's a plus for UAL. Good growth, so that's a plus for UAL. We aren't fighting with management so that's a plus for UAL. Our seniority situation seems somewhat stabilized post merger, so that' s a plus. Retirements ahead, so that's a plus. Munoz seems to be figuring it out, so that's a plus.

AA, DAL, and SWA are all having some issues right now with their respective managements and that is not sitting well with their pilots. It affects morale, and a new guy doesn't necessarily want to have to deal with that stuff if he/she doesn't have to. I am sure that magical vibe of "everything's, great, every things awesome when your part of the team" is just for show in the interview process at those places.

 

Those are the things I am trying to find out about.

 

I was hired by both AA and UA. I agonized over the decision for several months...lost lots of sleep! I finally decided to go with whichever one got me into class first, which ended up being United. I was already done with IOE by the time AA called me for a class. Though I had just barely hit the line at that point, all of my experiences at United had been really positive and it felt like a good fit for me. I felt no compelling reason to leave for AA, and it was actually easier than I thought it would be to turn down the AA class. I think things worked out the way they were supposed to.

Like others have said over and over again, I'll know in 30 years whether I made the right choice!

 

And in 30 years, you're not gonna give a poop anyway!

 

I'd be willing to bet there are about as many pilots leaving UAL for DAL as vice versa. Having said that, if you have a choice and all is else is equal...

1) Finances... not having to move and driving to a job with a great contract and what you think is a perfect culture means nothing if that job is gone in a few years and you're sending out resumes hoping to back on the bottom of a different seniority list. I've seen this work both ways... pilots leaving a sinking carrier to go to greener pastures and pilots leaving for what they thought was a better job, only to be almost instantly furloughed. Delving through the real finances is probably beyond most of our capabilities, but if there's perceptible smoke, beware of fire.

2) What does their seniority list look like and when were their hiring waves? You can't count on growth plans, but time (retirement) marches on. Are they top heavy and just beginning to hire, or are you the 4,000th pilot hired in the latest wave? Also, I'd be very leery of getting in the middle of the AMR three way SLI "Battle Royale" between ALPA remnants, USAPA, and APA. It could take years of suboptimal contracts before there's a unified front there.

3) Contrary to what our wives and girlfriends have been telling us (or you've been telling your husband or boyfriend), size matters. Industry consolidation probably isn't over and going to work for the hometown airline (Alaska, Frontier, Jet Blue) means a strong possibility of a merger down the road, which might be good, neutral, or bad, but it will mean change. There is precedent for airlines acquiring smaller carriers and shuttering hubs soon after (PSA and AirCal).

4) Driving to work is great, but... if you're in a secondary or tertiary hub, there's no guarantee it'll be there for ever. See Dallas (DAL), Seattle (UAL), Raleigh (AAL), Nashville (AAL), Cleveland (CAL), Memphis (NWA), and Pittsburgh (US Air) for examples.

5) What kind of flying do you want to do? If you envisioned yourself in Hong Kong, SWA probably isn't for you.

6) Corporate culture and contracts are overrated. You'll fit into whatever the culture is. In a reserve unit, you can't tell who works for what carrier based on their personalities, at least not until they've been there for a while. You'll mold to the culture and contracts are constantly leap frogging each other... both up and down. The exception to that is the freight carriers, who still have their DB plans and will keep them for the foreseeable future.

Long story short... the decision is yours. Consider yourself lucky if you've actually got a choice, I just went with the first one to hire me and, to some degree, lucked out. If I was choosing, I'd say UAL has more potential than DAL, but DAL is the better company right now. You know what they say about potential... it means you haven't done it. FedEx and UPS are probably the best financially, but much of your career will be spent flying redeyes, and domestic redeyes to and from a sort are harder on the body for most than back side of the clock augmented long haul flying. Southwest will have you in a 737 for your entire career, but it's probably the most durable passenger carrier out there. Alaska would be a great place to work, but be wary of a merger. I already mentioned my concerns about American. If I got hired by any of the above mentioned carriers, I'd have to have a really good reason to leave for another.

 

As one of the guys looking at FedEx for this reason (background would send me MD-11s if I go w/ FedEx) what advice would you offer someone who goes straight to the MD right seat when comparing that prospect to a legacy pax company/lifestyle? I know the MD has a diverse bid pack, but I'm curious; Am I fooling myself or am I really going to avoid night sorts / tough domestic schedules I might otherwise experience in the 75/76 lifestyles? BLUF, how does MD life compare to 756 life at FedEx as a FO?

 

Everyone has their own "basket" of needs when it comes to career expectations. I was an Eastern pilot during the strike of '89. I looked at the hiring curves for all of the airlines and only applied to United. FEDEX and NWA apps were filled out and ready for emergency submission, but ultimately not required. Airlines are a curious collection of ADHD corporations. When I got hired by EAL in July '85, it was the place to be, given that DAL wasn't hiring yet (started in 8/85) and AAL was B scale. NWA was an ok place to go, but Minneapolis and Detroit weren't my goals. So after EAL went under, I took the emotion out of employer selection and determined that United had the best hiring curve/retirement curve for me. 9/11 happened (and could happen again) and al that changed. But ultimately, as a 59 year old guy with a nominal retirement age of 65, because of the higher concentration of true wide body paying Captain seats at UAL, I will retire in 5.5 years probably with more time in said premium seat than many of my contemporaries that got hired by DL in 8/85. But a lot of schitt can happen in 5.5 years. Bottom line-do your homework; where do you want to live?; will you be happy flying domestic narrow body Captain for the rest of your career (not knocking it)?; What is the long term prognosis for the airline you've chosen, knowing what we know right this minute?; Do you mind flying freight on the back side or internationally on the all sides?; Where do you want to live and what is your commuting stress threshold?; What airline do you best socially identify with (they're significant differences, but you can individually change them as Captain on every trip, as I do)? You will never know if you've been successful until you set the brakes on your last flight. And even then, with bankruptcy laws, you might still have made the wrong decision. Save money, enjoy every day, bid what you love to fly and understand this is the price we pay for having a most awesome career.

 

Bogeydriver--Looking for the Like button! As a UAL pilot whose generation of airline pilots has been put through the ringer, I still think it's an awesome job. It can come with a hefty price though and requires dispassionate career evaluation.

 

XHooker nailed it. Bogeydriver exemplifies why when I stepped into a cockpit and the Captain eventually said he/she is rEAL, I knew it was going to be a good trip.

No one knows how this is going to turn out. Make the best decision for the present time and move forward. Each person has their own motivation. A right answer for one might not be so for the other.

Fly the jet, have fun, and go home. Someone will always have it better and someone will always have it worse. It is what you make of it.

 

777 is ticket to international flying. MD-11 will be a mix, but largely domestic anymore for junior guys. You'll get lucky and trade into an international trip here or there, but domestic is most likely your core flying...at least as of today.

What makes the MD11 more palatable IMHO is the red-eyes you will be doing are largely one leg in and out. The major ass kicker IMHO is a hub turn with more than 2 legs on the outbound leg. Sitting 30-90 minutes on the ground then doing one more leg 0500-0800 is a tough, tough gig. That is the what the 757 does quite a bit, and because bidpacks are blended now (that may change soon...) 767 pilots get a taste of that here and there too.

Long answer to a short question--odds are you will still be doing back side ops for while on the -11 domestically. If I had to do it, though, I'd much much rather do it in that comfortable jet than any of the boeings. Schedule is the primary reason, but the ergonomics of the -11 are also a bit better...having an oven, a coffee maker, and a much more comfortable seat.