AllenAllert

We'll disagree on Prater's roll in the age 65 change. He was a figure head and got the spot as a gift to CAL pilots for returning to ALPA. I find it hard to believe that the board allowed Prater to go against the wishes of themselves and a clear membership majority. I think you guys are manufacturing some of this stuff. To what end, I don't know.

To be clear, Prater did absolutely nothing as ALPA president. I find it very hard to believe he was smart enough or had the long term planning skills or time to turn the government around on the age 65 ruling. There has been a lot written on this subject and I'm inclined to believe that over the conspiracies you've brought forward. The CAL guys are the only ones repeating the Prater story without laughing.

Just for the record, I'm for doing away with the age discrimination altogether. Allow all pilots ever on our seniority lists that were forced to retire because of age to return at their full seniority. The only limitation is their ability to pass the current medical and performance standards that current pilot are required to meet.

Ottolillienthal

I used to think the preppers were crazy, preparing for doomsday and all that armagetten stuff. They may not be so crazy after all. We all know Obama wants to take our Guns and our Bibles, so best to just be prepared.

It's ok for ALPA to keep talking about it. If it's important then they can keep reinforcing their position on issue for the older more senile types, while simultaneously educating the newer pilots. Probably need to hear about it every 3 moths since we're doing so much hiring.

Consider it just good practice for their communications and PR people.

JoePatroni

You have absolutely NO idea what you're talking about. The board ABSOLUTELY let him go against the wishes of the membership or he wouldn't have gotten anywhere. The polling results were crystal clear, EVERY time they put one out. The kept obfuscating the questions until the results got close enough to say we need to do this.

I don't know who you were talking to but I routinely got asked, by friends at both UAL and DAL, what exactly was Prater trying to prove.

What exactly are you referring to by "a lot written on the subject?"

Ottolillienthal

What age discrimation are you talking about? We don't have that in the airline business.

You can't be serious....No way we allow retired pilots to return with "full seniority." What does full seniority mean?

The CAL guys aren't the only ones repeating the Prater story without laughing. Well, you may be right there. Most are either laughing or crying. Do you know Prater's real goal? His ultimate goal was to be President of the AFL-CIO. That's what he really wanted to do. ALPA was just a stepping stone for him. I can give you Prater's number if you want it. Let him tell you all about it for a cigar and a steak at Charlie Palmer's.

Prater did allot of damage as ALPA President. He had no business being ALPA President after CAL just came back into ALPA and being from a scab airline and all. He just looked bad, and he looked bad doing it. He did allot of damage to the profession and to career progression, so I will disagree with you on that.

Ottolillienthal

You hit the nail on the head. We can't keep moving the goal-posts.

-No way for everyone to get "equality" for a career.

Prior to age 65 passing, the AvErAgE pilot at CAL would get about 9 million for his/her career. Assuming a natural progression to wide-body Captain and assuming getting hired at approximately age 30.

I know the dollars have changed now due to inflation and the last contract, but maybe we should just give every pilot their 9 million dollars up-front when they get hired, so we can make it "equal" for everyone....... Once you work off the 9 million....You are officially retired.

AllenAllert

Do you read any of the APLA publications, mailing and emails. Before we start to play that game, show where it is written that Prater had the political horsepower to get age 65 passed. I'm more inclined to go along with the PBGC not willing to go along with a decrease in age for full payout for pilots forced to retire at age 60 theory.

Ottolillienthal

Just ask Prater. He is very proud of his accomplishment. It's not a secret or anything. He and his EVP "Lynch" they were really super-excited about this accomplishment. It was their equivalent of putting a man on the moon. In all seriousness, he popped champagne corks at ALPA that day.

JoePatroni

You do understand HOW it was passed right? It most certainly did NOT follow the normal FAA rule making process. Look at how and when it passed and it matches perfectly with a behind the scenes campaign. Ask the Southwest guys (Paul Emens specifically), they were also walking the halls in DC for months on end.

I read all the ALPA emails, especially the ones Prater and his pals put out telling us it was a done deal and we needed to be part of the change. It was BS then and it's still BS today.

AllenAllert

You got it - it's the only logical explanation.

Especially if you look at the title of the legislation.

AllenAllert

You are right - it was a backroom deal that got it passed but the players were the Bush administration, the PBGC and the FAA.

We did need to be part of the process after it was done - otherwise lawmakers would be changing far more than changing the age. That is widely known in the industry.