Another suit filed Vs. UAL. Is ALPA not going to bat for our military guys or something? Moss Vs. United.

I tried to upload the PDF documents (suit plus letter from Reserve Officers Assoc), but the size of the documents were too big or something. They are posted on the other forum though if you wish to read.

 

Can you post link to other forum?

 

http://www.ualpilotsforum.org/ual-hi...it-t26140.html

There were two PDF docs, but I guess there is an upload limit.

 

Curious what the Thumbnail brief of the alleged wrong. I don't need chapter and verse just the facts. With all the federal protection the Mil guys have why would an individual need to sue UAL?

 

Well.....

....it turns out that UAL has done a VERY poor job of complying with said federal protection. There already have been several recent suits (all successful) so UA certainly has a demonstrated track record of not doing the right thing for whatever reason. In all cases they went through the internal channels before the pilots were ultimately forced to sue.

The dirty laundry is in the referenced link above.

 

If you posted the documents on "the other forum", why wouldn't you ask the "ALPA not going to bat for" question on that forum. Unless you have other motives for posting it on this forum.

ALPA has military committees that have done a good job of gathering information and pointing our pilots in the direction or law to handle most of these matters. What exactly would you suggest ALPA do for the military guys?

 

If there's a violation of the CBA, shouldn't this be a group grievance? If a pilot bypasses the grievance process and chooses to instead file a civil lawsuit, good luck but don't use my dues money to fight that battle. It sounds like the ALPA committees have already done an excellent job outlining the issues that appear to be outside the scope of the CBA.

 

Perhaps he has no idea what you are talking about???? I wouldn't assume he has an agenda, or anything like that.

I for one saw the story and wanted to know what was going on. I haven't heard ALPA talking about any of these events, or the events that have led up to the suits. So, ALPA has clearly made a decision to be hush-hush about it.

I am not sure that our military members who are also ALPA members are getting their money's worth from their union. I do wonder if ALPA ever plans on stepping up to the plate, and represent our military pilots too?? That is more than a fair question, since all of these cases have resulted in suits.

The other part of my question is not stated, but I also wonder if it's just better in terms of dues money/resources not to spend it on grievances and/or if the legal route is the cleaner route to go through since the laws broken are federal laws. I am confused however, that if we are having issues with sick leave, vacation, etc., then these issues appear to be contractual indeed, so therefore ALPA would have an interest.
On the other hand, the military members may not trust ALPA and therefore be inclined to go another route.

 

I didn't post them, but I did see them posted and for a few days wondered why the issue wasn't spoken about here. I thought it very odd.

The track record at Continental Airlines and how the military pilots were treated post PBS is UNSAT. Not only in scheduling, but in contractual compliance. I can't remember how many law suits ended up being filed, but it was more than 4. All of them had to do with taking of mllv and application of contractual provisions surrounding usage of mil leave within the CBA.

Any time a pilot takes an absence from work it can be complicated. Just haven't heard of problems from those taking family and medical leave or maternity leave. Just military pilots coming back trying to be treated fairly in regards to sick leave accrual, B fund match, benefits earned, vacation accrued, etc.

I think the military pilots are losing patience with this management team. I don't see any threads on any other forums whereby a major airline pilot is having to fight with his management over benefits, except at UAL-CAL holdings.

 

Dues money can't be spent in a lawsuit by ALPA, unless ALPA is the plantiff, defendant, or has a co-interest in a suit, for example an amicus brief, or a friend of the court. It would be possible in some of these cases for ALPA to be named in the suit by the company, if the company feels that ALPA should be intervened upon or enjoined as a co-defendant.

It can't be a group grievance necessarily unless it's certified as such. If it's only a handful of pilots with dissimilar USSERA claims it wouldn't be appropriate for them to go via a grievance, it would be more appropriate to litigate. However, ALPA does have a military type guidance committee, and that committee may be an appropriate place to leverage support for our pilots. If our pilots are paying dues, then surely they want their pertinent contract language enforced on their behalf.

It does appear that at least one of the attorneys involved is a UAL pilot and is a ALPA member. His law firm appears to be handling all of these suits.