Fleet Discussion and News
02-22-2020, 09:30 AM
#781
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Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: 777
Posts: 2,158
Originally Posted by FlyPurdue
First off, I meant no disrespect in my post...I was trying to make it as informative as possible, but I agree it came off rude to you. As far as how I know about these acronyms...I worked for a legacy (not United) in both revenue and fleet strategy for 5 years. All we talked about internally is E-seats. It never makes it into the investor reporting because all Wall Street cares about is actual capacity growth not theoretical, so casm/rasm is what’s reported. It’s extremely easy to work between the 2 metrics so when building executive crib sheets or investor updates, we just use actual seats as the denominator.
As an example, a few here are stuck on the A350 max seating configuration, and other examples that are not realistic. You really have to compare planes on actual seating configurations, not what is theoretically possible with max seats demonstrated in an evac test.
02-22-2020, 01:26 PM
#782
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,785
Originally Posted by FlyPurdue
I worked for a legacy (not United) in both revenue and fleet strategy for 5 years. All we talked about internally is E-seats. It never makes it into the investor reporting because all Wall Street cares about is actual capacity growth not theoretical, so casm/rasm is what’s reported. It’s extremely easy to work between the 2 metrics so when building executive crib sheets or investor updates, we just use actual seats as the denominator.
What legacy did you work for and why can I find no reference to CESM/RESM?
02-23-2020, 05:13 AM
#783
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,160
Originally Posted by Flytolive
The investor community would eat this up. Again, this is simple common sense of maximizing revenue/square foot of cabin space not to mention cargo space or payload over all.
What legacy did you work for and why can I find no reference to CESM/RESM?
What legacy did you work for and why can I find no reference to CESM/RESM?
http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/D...0ex%20Fuel.pdf
I got a lot of hits for CESM when inputting cost seat mile. Not so much for RESM.
02-23-2020, 05:46 AM
#784
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Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,785
Thanks, cents/equivalent seat mile.
I like it as it is a better way to make apples to apples comparisons between the multitude of seating configurations, but you still have the issues of stage length adjustments.
Also, what seat pitch/width and number of seats across (9 v 10 on 777) is used in the denominator? Is there any industry standard or just various in house methodologies?
Maybe FlyPurdue can tell us.
I like it as it is a better way to make apples to apples comparisons between the multitude of seating configurations, but you still have the issues of stage length adjustments.
Also, what seat pitch/width and number of seats across (9 v 10 on 777) is used in the denominator? Is there any industry standard or just various in house methodologies?
Maybe FlyPurdue can tell us.
04-03-2020, 06:50 AM
#786
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 147
Highlights from a reporter who listened to UA's Employee Town Hall yesterday (note, how does this guy get to listen to employee-only Town Halls?)
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/unite...233553523.html
Doesn't seem to be too many surprises, given the age of some of the oldest tails in the 767, 767, and Airbus fleets.
Right now, the following aircraft are "stored" at Roswell NM (pulled from https://www.airliners.net/forum/view...?f=3&t=1437915). Note the entire P&W 757-200 fleet is there. Given the age of the fleet, seems likely they won't ever return.
The rest of the fleet that's not actively flying seems to be parked at various domestic line stations across the network. Guessing those aircraft are being put into service periodically to spread hours and cycles around the fleet. I'd assume as aircraft come due for heavy check they'll be put into long-term storage.
ROW Roswell, NM
319: N837UA, N838UA
320: N447UA, N338UA
738: N25201, N73291
739: N72405, N37434
752: N502UA, N512UA, N568UA, N587UA, N588UA, N589UA, N590UA, N595UA, N596UA, N597UA, N598UA, N14118, N18119 (the entire 752 PW fleet)
753: N77867
763: N641UA, N644UA, N649UA, N661UA
764: N66051, N67052, N59053, N76054, N76055, N66056, N66057, N67058, N78060, N68061, N76062, N69063, N76064, N76065, N77066 (the entire fleet except N69059 in HKG maintenance)
772: N768UA, N222UA, N219UA, N220UA, N221UA, N216UA, N227UA, N228UA, N786UA, N791UA, N799UA
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/unite...233553523.html
United is taking a similar wait-and-see approach on aircraft and has not made plans to permanently ground any fleet type, Kirby said. Still, he said the cramped CRJ-200s and Embraer E145s, which fly as United Express, likely won’t stick around long.
“My guess the 50 seaters mostly will be gone, by the end of this,” he said.
Other fleet types may not come back either. If recovery does not come soon, United’s Boeing 757s would go first, Kirby said, followed by the Boeing 767s that the airline mainly flies to Europe. Many 767s recently received new business class cabins, but some date back to the early 1990s.
“That’s not an easy decision to make because the 767s in particular have been a great airplane,” Kirby said.
Next, United would retire Airbus A319s and A320s delivered in the 1990s, Kirby said. United has expected to retain those airplanes and use new Boeing 737 Max jets, a similar-sized airplane, to grow the fleet. But in a scenario where demand takes time to return, the Airbus jets would go away, while Max deliveries continued.
“We still have a large order book for 737 Maxes and it’s right to assume at some point the Max is going to return to service,” Kirby said.
“My guess the 50 seaters mostly will be gone, by the end of this,” he said.
Other fleet types may not come back either. If recovery does not come soon, United’s Boeing 757s would go first, Kirby said, followed by the Boeing 767s that the airline mainly flies to Europe. Many 767s recently received new business class cabins, but some date back to the early 1990s.
“That’s not an easy decision to make because the 767s in particular have been a great airplane,” Kirby said.
Next, United would retire Airbus A319s and A320s delivered in the 1990s, Kirby said. United has expected to retain those airplanes and use new Boeing 737 Max jets, a similar-sized airplane, to grow the fleet. But in a scenario where demand takes time to return, the Airbus jets would go away, while Max deliveries continued.
“We still have a large order book for 737 Maxes and it’s right to assume at some point the Max is going to return to service,” Kirby said.
Right now, the following aircraft are "stored" at Roswell NM (pulled from https://www.airliners.net/forum/view...?f=3&t=1437915). Note the entire P&W 757-200 fleet is there. Given the age of the fleet, seems likely they won't ever return.
The rest of the fleet that's not actively flying seems to be parked at various domestic line stations across the network. Guessing those aircraft are being put into service periodically to spread hours and cycles around the fleet. I'd assume as aircraft come due for heavy check they'll be put into long-term storage.
ROW Roswell, NM
319: N837UA, N838UA
320: N447UA, N338UA
738: N25201, N73291
739: N72405, N37434
752: N502UA, N512UA, N568UA, N587UA, N588UA, N589UA, N590UA, N595UA, N596UA, N597UA, N598UA, N14118, N18119 (the entire 752 PW fleet)
753: N77867
763: N641UA, N644UA, N649UA, N661UA
764: N66051, N67052, N59053, N76054, N76055, N66056, N66057, N67058, N78060, N68061, N76062, N69063, N76064, N76065, N77066 (the entire fleet except N69059 in HKG maintenance)
772: N768UA, N222UA, N219UA, N220UA, N221UA, N216UA, N227UA, N228UA, N786UA, N791UA, N799UA
04-03-2020, 07:00 AM
#787
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Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 694
for the math in public types, under an assumption of 100% removal of 50 seaters from the network, what % of mainline would be drawn down to approximate the 30% overall "baseline" number? also, can anyone point me to where we can reference the number (or date) of furloughs that trigger reconfiguring 76 seaters to 70 seats? hoping like all that the summer brings better news but curious about different ways this could play out.
04-03-2020, 12:43 PM
#789
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Position: 777FO
Posts: 703
Originally Posted by CLazarus
I know it has been done in the past, but I don't see us rapidly parking an entire fleet type. We have quite a few 756s, 320s, and even 777s that are 25ish years old. I count 21 757s, 21 767s, 30 320s, and 5 777s that are hitting 25 years old or more as of right now. We could retire/part out older jets piecemeal as they approach heavy checks and such, including some problem children younger than 25 (any jet I've landed has probably never flown the same since).
It seems to me the benefit of slicing down fleets like this is that it reduces the number of potential displacements. That is, if we retired a dozen 756s tomorrow the number of CAs affected would be muted by retirements, and the junior FOs being displaced would only be able to bid to 320/737.
Having never witnessed this process first hand or being privy to fleet decision making considerations, this is just idle speculation on my part. I'd be very interested to learn more from folks with better insight or hard earned experience.
It seems to me the benefit of slicing down fleets like this is that it reduces the number of potential displacements. That is, if we retired a dozen 756s tomorrow the number of CAs affected would be muted by retirements, and the junior FOs being displaced would only be able to bid to 320/737.
Having never witnessed this process first hand or being privy to fleet decision making considerations, this is just idle speculation on my part. I'd be very interested to learn more from folks with better insight or hard earned experience.
I posted the above in a different thread and got no feedback. Maybe I won't get any here either, but it is worth a try.
04-03-2020, 12:55 PM
#790
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 1,825
Originally Posted by CLazarus
I posted the above in a different thread and got no feedback. Maybe I won't get any here either, but it is worth a try.
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