Night flying
03-08-2017, 05:16 PM
#41
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2011
Position: 757/767 Captain
Posts: 51
Originally Posted by Commando
It's 140,000 reasons. After Taxes, LTD, Mutual Aid, Union Dues, etc.
Also, one cannot cash in there Vacation for 175 hours until they retire. The way you wrote it, it sounds like one can do that each year.
Also, one cannot cash in there Vacation for 175 hours until they retire. The way you wrote it, it sounds like one can do that each year.
03-08-2017, 06:45 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 299
Originally Posted by Commando
It's 140,000 reasons. After Taxes, LTD, Mutual Aid, Union Dues, etc.
Also, one cannot cash in there Vacation for 175 hours until they retire. The way you wrote it, it sounds like one can do that each year.
Also, one cannot cash in there Vacation for 175 hours until they retire. The way you wrote it, it sounds like one can do that each year.
03-08-2017, 10:26 PM
#43
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,512
Night flying
Originally Posted by Commando
It's 140,000 reasons. After Taxes, LTD, Mutual Aid, Union Dues, etc.
Also, one cannot cash in there Vacation for 175 hours until they retire. The way you wrote it, it sounds like one can do that each year.
I have 30+ years left here and my regional sim partner was one of those 2 year, early 30 something NYC88A upgrades at Delta - I wouldn't trade my job for his and most likely vice versa.
Wouldn't mind a Five Guys, Starbucks and/or Jamba Juice in the ASC, though.
03-09-2017, 01:45 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: Retired from APC.
Posts: 507
Originally Posted by CargoDriver
Couple of questions: Your example of mid 40's and hired here(ups) would assume that you would make Captain in the 20 year career and retire with an A plan of 20 years correct? According to conservative planning, my CFP, and other info that I read, I would need an annuity of over 2 million, drawing 4% annually to equal my A plan payout for 20 years of service. I still have the 401K and B fund. Are you saying that a mid 40 year old hired at Delta is projected to have 2 million invested with after tax dollars when he retires?
If yes to that question, then they will definitely need more $$ and PS to put that kinda money away, wouldn't you agree?
Either way, a 30 year career choice between Cargo and legacy would be a tough decision for me if I had a do-over!!
If yes to that question, then they will definitely need more $$ and PS to put that kinda money away, wouldn't you agree?
Either way, a 30 year career choice between Cargo and legacy would be a tough decision for me if I had a do-over!!
The retirement statement was referencing DALPA's C2015 support material retirement video which compared 30 year careers at DAL v others. They suggested that DAL would have the industry highest compensated retirement with the assumption that you 100% reinvest the cash over cap provision, or something like that. That's for a full 30 yrs and fully reliant on the market's returns and sound investing strategy. There's obviously a correlation with increasing age and higher retirement values at FX/UPS vs legacies due to the value of the A-Fund even with APLA's inflated projection numbers .
I feel ya on the do-over: if the legacies were truly better you'd have (& would have had) at least some guys jumping ship to the legacies both from us and FX. It's just not happening.
03-09-2017, 06:35 AM
#45
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 87
So it sounds like the drop in class is luck of the draw but I also heard that they ask you to list your preferences so it sounds like for a Central Florida guy getting Miami may not be the best bet after all and commuting to SDF might be the better bet is that a correct assumption? The poster that listed the lines out of MIA are those lines back to back or is that one trip spaced out with a day or two in between? I get that that is not the same as a pax airline schedule of a four-day trip on the road but just wondering if those lines are basically just out and backs and that is the expected Jr schedule
03-09-2017, 08:05 AM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Always Fly With Favorite Captain
Posts: 376
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
...all deductions that every major airline pilot has...
One can OCV all 5 weeks of vacation for 5hr/day if they choose to in lieu of time off. That would be to the detriment of staffing, but the option is available.
One can OCV all 5 weeks of vacation for 5hr/day if they choose to in lieu of time off. That would be to the detriment of staffing, but the option is available.
03-09-2017, 08:22 AM
#47
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,512
Originally Posted by vroll1800
Doesn't one have to have ~18-20 years longevity at Brown to get those 5 weeks ? For edification, could one elect to OCV only 1 week out of 5 ? Partial weeks ?
Years 5-10: 3 weeks
Years 11-19: 4 weeks
Years 20+: 5 weeks
A crewmember that opts into OCV (optional crewmember vacation) can elect one of two options: 1. get paid 5hr/day of vacation fly normal schedule (ie. vacation buyback) or 2. two weeks of vacation in the same four week pay period drops that pay period's entire schedule.
If one only has a single week of vacation in a given pay period, they can 1. bid for conflict which drops trips and pays 3hr for each vacation day falling on a day off or 2. OCV and get paid 35 hours for that week of vacation.
Starting in 2018 there will be an OCV option to "one week slide" vacation to better provide better conflicting, and any slid OCV one-week vacation day that ends up falling on a day off will pay at 5hr/day.
03-09-2017, 06:35 PM
#48
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2011
Position: 757/767 Captain
Posts: 51
Originally Posted by BNUT
So it sounds like the drop in class is luck of the draw but I also heard that they ask you to list your preferences so it sounds like for a Central Florida guy getting Miami may not be the best bet after all and commuting to SDF might be the better bet is that a correct assumption? The poster that listed the lines out of MIA are those lines back to back or is that one trip spaced out with a day or two in between? I get that that is not the same as a pax airline schedule of a four-day trip on the road but just wondering if those lines are basically just out and backs and that is the expected Jr schedule
You may find yourself doing a 2 night turn this week. Monday and Thursday. Or next week, 3 turns mon, tue and wed. It's a max of 10 per month(28 day cycle). Almost guaranteed to work every week.
Your definition of out and back is pretty close. However, this will be at night. So that last out and back this week on Thursday PM actually gets you back at 7 am on Friday. A day out and back on Thursday to Bogota has you leaving on Thursday at 930 and returning on Thursday at 6 pm. The night BOG will have you leaving at 11 pm and returning on Friday am at 8. See the difference?
03-11-2017, 05:02 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757/767 Capt
Posts: 642
FTFF,
Thanks for all your insights and informative posts. But, I have to question your comment about the Delta 2015 plan, and profit sharing etc etc . Here's my perspective. Showed up in an Air Force C-141 squadron in 1987. Everyone getting out was hired by multiple airlines, and had their choice. In my area, (NY, NJ, PA) most of the 1987 guys went to USAir because they made the most money, paid the highest, and had a local domicile. Two years later it collapsed at USAir..the next batch 1990-92 pilots mostly went to Delta, or American, two years later (1993-94) they were all furloughed from both airlines, many ended up here at UPS btw. Back then, every airline was trying to replicate Southwest, which meant more flying, less pay, the trend did not look promising. Watching all this unfold I jumped at the chance to come to UPS just for the stability in 1995. By 1997-98 all the majors seemed to be back on their feet making money, profit sharing, big salaries. I felt like a chump picking UPS over United, and then a few years later, 9/11... we know the rest. It's the turtle and the hare story, and I got to spend 28 years hanging out with and listening to the "hare's" and at least for me, being the turtle has paid off. The feast/famine cycles of the pax airlines are what scared me. Today we have airlines that will fly you to Europe for peanuts$$, yesterday a friend told me they bought tickets from NJ to Florida for $35.00 on Frontier Airlines. I'll stick with cargo and night flying. YMMV
Thanks for all your insights and informative posts. But, I have to question your comment about the Delta 2015 plan, and profit sharing etc etc . Here's my perspective. Showed up in an Air Force C-141 squadron in 1987. Everyone getting out was hired by multiple airlines, and had their choice. In my area, (NY, NJ, PA) most of the 1987 guys went to USAir because they made the most money, paid the highest, and had a local domicile. Two years later it collapsed at USAir..the next batch 1990-92 pilots mostly went to Delta, or American, two years later (1993-94) they were all furloughed from both airlines, many ended up here at UPS btw. Back then, every airline was trying to replicate Southwest, which meant more flying, less pay, the trend did not look promising. Watching all this unfold I jumped at the chance to come to UPS just for the stability in 1995. By 1997-98 all the majors seemed to be back on their feet making money, profit sharing, big salaries. I felt like a chump picking UPS over United, and then a few years later, 9/11... we know the rest. It's the turtle and the hare story, and I got to spend 28 years hanging out with and listening to the "hare's" and at least for me, being the turtle has paid off. The feast/famine cycles of the pax airlines are what scared me. Today we have airlines that will fly you to Europe for peanuts$$, yesterday a friend told me they bought tickets from NJ to Florida for $35.00 on Frontier Airlines. I'll stick with cargo and night flying. YMMV
03-11-2017, 05:26 AM
#50
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,512
The DALPA comparison video made some assumptions when it came to retirement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21TSEX8Xh2o&t=1540s
-DC increased from 15% to 16% (which they got)
-Rates DOS up 18% (which they got), then 4.39% the next two years (which they did not get - they got 3%), then 3% thereafter
-"Cash over cap" paid to crewmember with 0% tax until retirement, 100% invested by crewmember, and 6% return
-Profit sharing 21% in 2016 (not sure what they got) then 10% thereafter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21TSEX8Xh2o&t=1540s
-DC increased from 15% to 16% (which they got)
-Rates DOS up 18% (which they got), then 4.39% the next two years (which they did not get - they got 3%), then 3% thereafter
-"Cash over cap" paid to crewmember with 0% tax until retirement, 100% invested by crewmember, and 6% return
-Profit sharing 21% in 2016 (not sure what they got) then 10% thereafter
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