FTv3

UPSers, aka UPS people, start from the bottom when they are young, throwing boxes, sorting their packages and envelopes. They work their way up over a career and “earn” the high paying positions as a result. Essentially the entire executive suite here is composed of born and bred UPSers - they rarely hire from the outside.

So us pilots come strolling into UPS with our ray ban aviator shades, our typical laid back cool ethos, and earn way more than most of the people that have worked here for a career almost from the day we start. And we get half the month off. And we fly first class around the world with long stays in Hawaii and Europe. And we have a huge retirement benefits package, insane health care, and so on and so on. What do you imagine the career people think of us? We’ve never thrown a box, worked a package car shift...we aren’t UPSers, just a bunch of overpaid prima-donnas. There is a very real resentful attitude towards us, to put it mildly, from not only UPS corporate but many folks in admin, HR, cheif pilot’s team, etc., as well. Not all, but many. IMO, this is where the problems with this job start. That being said, most of the peeps we directly interact with on a daily basis don’t fall into this generalization.

To keep it brief, working here is bitter-sweet. They are difficult to interact with. They are petty, will lie to you, they will try to cheat you out of $ with an, “oops, honest mistake,” attitude. Not only did they furlough (arguably) unnecessarily, they left a bunch of furloughed guys stranded in ANC - psychopathic behavior? They fought against installing TCAS in the airplanes and they bought the cargo exemption of 117. The latest shenanigans is that they are refusing to expand the fleet enough to handle the ever increasing volume instead subcontracting 7? planes from western global, blatantly against the contract. By the way, Someone posted a while back that we have exponentially more grievances per year than any other carrier (rumor only).

The schedules are becoming busier, with less time off and less commutability. The uniform pants are horrific as is the catering and it seems UPS is trying to make all these worse out of spite. Still, if you have a personal problem they will step up and act really nice and make sure you and family are taken care of as good as any other carrier would. And as bad as the things I mentioned above are, to UPS’s credit, they could be a lot worse if mother brown so chose. Most of the gripes guys have I could find at any other carrier albeit to a lesser degree.

The good: FedEx guys maintain they have he best vacay in the industry. Ours is outstanding, their’s must be phenomenal. Single pay rate all fleets with high pay rates in general. Health care bennies are way better than any pax carrier. Retirement package is solid, more diversified than the pax guys. Last US based 747 carrier outside ACMI. Contract holds it own to any other carrier out there. The union is solid and strongly unified. Guys on the line are a good bunch of people and we typically have fun despite our employer. In fact, if you show up do you job, enjoy the overnight, then go home you don’t really interact with UPS. That said, this is not a place where you find guys wearing company logo clothes on their days off. The vibe is pretty laid back, no one is on your behind, we don’t get harassed for uniform stuff, and you have to work hard at or do something really stupid to lose your job here.

Summation: it’s not bad but not great either even though at times it really can be. I wouldn’t write it off but I’d still question someone who has it at the top of their list.

FTv3

R seat. Look at the post 1801 bid seniority list then look where 2014 hires sit.

FTv3

Heck, for the SDF base most 2014 hires are in the low 50 percentile on everything but the MD in this current bid package. (2014 hire MD guys enter at 63%). And SDF has almost a thousand FO’s. All other domiciles have a little over 500 combined. I’m keeping the numbers vague so I don’t get accused of memogate part deux. Here’s the rest of the system from the perspective of 2014 hires.

ANC: no 2014 hires
74 FO = 69% of less than 250 people. (2015 hire),
MD FO = 63% of about a hundred (2016 hire)

ONT: 63% of about a hundred

MIA: 81% of 80ish total. Woof.

Appx 550 newhires since June 2014. Again from a 2014 hire’s perspective they sure as ship ain’t stagnating. At least not yet.

flyguy23

I do fly for an airline

My career as well as those hired the last few years is progressing at a rapid pace

I've got a relatively large number of pilots below me and furlough is extremely unlikely

It isn't much, but ill take the tlv penalty

Every airline in the US has contractors flying their work, at least it wont be permanent at UPS as it is with all legacies

Only direct entry captains are regionals

cougar

In other news, UPS bought 2 more new 767s.

BoilerUP

Source?

Three additional new 767s (for a total of seven new) were announced a few weeks ago.

Airbum

What US airline has contractors flying domestic routes in aircraft as large or larger then flown by the main line operation?

Answer: none.

Your response is a down play of the assault on our contract and downplays the negative way UPS operates in its relationship to its pilots.

Imagine the outrage if Delta/United/AA/SWA hired a contractor flying widebidy domestic routes because they decided not to buy aircraft.

Edit: UPS hired non union captains to operate flights and cross picket lines. Another downplay of serious issues that potential new hires should be aware of before accepting a job at Ups

flyguy23

I'm just as unhappy with the subcontracting as anyone else. I'm simply pointing out it's not necessarily better on the other side. Each legacy has 100s of large regional jets flying a VERY large percentage of their domestic lift. It's been a scope struggle for decades that will never go away or get better. I've been on that side and the outrage there is similar to how it is here now, only they've grown somewhat immune due to how long it's been going on. That is NOT me saying I'm good with what is happening here. Instead of looking at the size of the aircraft, look at volume. Legacies contract out a huge percentage of seats sold on domestic routes. The grass isn't greener.

Of course Southwest is not included in this.

Edit: My bad on leaving out fqs. That's a bad deal I'm in no way defending.

howardhughes8

Haven’t the number of FQS been decreasing steadily? Down to about 110-115 from over 200? With the elimination of the pension for these folks, the job becomes much less appealing.

CactusCrew

They are still hiring FQS, but is it keeping up with their retirements ?

It hasn't been mentioned.