ONT Domicile Schedule Breakdown
04-27-2021, 11:06 AM
#21
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 99
Originally Posted by FTv3
5/8 and week on off’s seem to be a mixed bag of day or nite sort (hub) flying. Some easy, some not so pretty. Here’s a random one:
-1900L Sunday show for a DH up to SJC
- 18hr l/o then 1900 departure to SDF
- sit sort then go to MFE at 0430, l/o
- same type of thing for next 2 nights but leaving out of SDF, a 2 legger to the l/o
- finish thur am in BOI, CML DH back to domicile that evening. (This is a paid ticket).
Here’s an easy 4 day:
-1am show, operate ONT - SLC - SDF, l/o
- day 2, 2 am show operate SDF LAX
- day 3, go back to Sdf at 5 am
-day 4, back to ONT, finish at 5am
Flipping through it, to me, nothing seems ‘horrible (relatively speaking).’ Looks like standard night flying though the devil is in the details so I’ll defer to the ONT peeps to tell it how it is.
—————-
Bottom ONT FOs got reserve, VTOs to those just above as well as base lines (mixed bag lines). The 5/8 stuff tended to go to the more senior but awards seem really scattered across the board compared to what I’m used to.
The MD (SDF) flies to ONT quite a bit. Imagine one could find a nice niche living in SoCal flying that thing.
—————
Days off per PP (28 days): A quick, and I mean a quick scan of various bid packs mixed with what I’ve seen... the company has you for 14/28 on average. Note that that’s on paper at bid award time. DH deviations, conflict bidding, trip trading can all lower days away from home or you can drop trips (pay) to do the same. Perhaps some of those ONT trips have 2330 show times or 2am finishes which counts as a “day” vs a day off, skewing the numbers...?
IMHO, if you don’t live close to ONT just bid SDF 75/76 and get a feel for the system’s idiosyncrasies for the first 6months to a year. Transfer into ONT if it looks palatable. If you live on ONT, bid it. If it sucks you can always bid out to Sdf. You’re not going to know until you get your feet wet.
————————
“Reserve goes senior here:”
This is an outdated paradigm. It’s highly dependent on fleet, seat, domicile, staffing levels, reserve type, and global events.
-1900L Sunday show for a DH up to SJC
- 18hr l/o then 1900 departure to SDF
- sit sort then go to MFE at 0430, l/o
- same type of thing for next 2 nights but leaving out of SDF, a 2 legger to the l/o
- finish thur am in BOI, CML DH back to domicile that evening. (This is a paid ticket).
Here’s an easy 4 day:
-1am show, operate ONT - SLC - SDF, l/o
- day 2, 2 am show operate SDF LAX
- day 3, go back to Sdf at 5 am
-day 4, back to ONT, finish at 5am
Flipping through it, to me, nothing seems ‘horrible (relatively speaking).’ Looks like standard night flying though the devil is in the details so I’ll defer to the ONT peeps to tell it how it is.
—————-
Bottom ONT FOs got reserve, VTOs to those just above as well as base lines (mixed bag lines). The 5/8 stuff tended to go to the more senior but awards seem really scattered across the board compared to what I’m used to.
The MD (SDF) flies to ONT quite a bit. Imagine one could find a nice niche living in SoCal flying that thing.
—————
Days off per PP (28 days): A quick, and I mean a quick scan of various bid packs mixed with what I’ve seen... the company has you for 14/28 on average. Note that that’s on paper at bid award time. DH deviations, conflict bidding, trip trading can all lower days away from home or you can drop trips (pay) to do the same. Perhaps some of those ONT trips have 2330 show times or 2am finishes which counts as a “day” vs a day off, skewing the numbers...?
IMHO, if you don’t live close to ONT just bid SDF 75/76 and get a feel for the system’s idiosyncrasies for the first 6months to a year. Transfer into ONT if it looks palatable. If you live on ONT, bid it. If it sucks you can always bid out to Sdf. You’re not going to know until you get your feet wet.
————————
“Reserve goes senior here:”
This is an outdated paradigm. It’s highly dependent on fleet, seat, domicile, staffing levels, reserve type, and global events.
04-28-2021, 09:33 AM
#22
Social Media retired.
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 777
Originally Posted by Sirius
Thank you so much for this I know it took you some time to post this but very valuable. I don’t feel these schedules are bad at times I end up staying up late on my days off socializing or on my Xbox going to sleep at 4am so not too bad. With seniority how much day flying does ONT offer?
04-28-2021, 02:20 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 157
Originally Posted by FTv3
Don’t know about the day flying but to get a better feel for UPS night flying, on those nights when you’re up to 4am, try pushing it to 7am and do it for a few nights in a row. That’ll give you a good approximation.
04-06-2024, 07:06 PM
#24
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2021
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by FTv3
5/8 and week on off’s seem to be a mixed bag of day or nite sort (hub) flying. Some easy, some not so pretty. Here’s a random one:
-1900L Sunday show for a DH up to SJC
- 18hr l/o then 1900 departure to SDF
- sit sort then go to MFE at 0430, l/o
- same type of thing for next 2 nights but leaving out of SDF, a 2 legger to the l/o
- finish thur am in BOI, CML DH back to domicile that evening. (This is a paid ticket).
Here’s an easy 4 day:
-1am show, operate ONT - SLC - SDF, l/o
- day 2, 2 am show operate SDF LAX
- day 3, go back to Sdf at 5 am
-day 4, back to ONT, finish at 5am
Flipping through it, to me, nothing seems ‘horrible (relatively speaking).’ Looks like standard night flying though the devil is in the details so I’ll defer to the ONT peeps to tell it how it is.
—————-
Bottom ONT FOs got reserve, VTOs to those just above as well as base lines (mixed bag lines). The 5/8 stuff tended to go to the more senior but awards seem really scattered across the board compared to what I’m used to.
The MD (SDF) flies to ONT quite a bit. Imagine one could find a nice niche living in SoCal flying that thing.
—————
Days off per PP (28 days): A quick, and I mean a quick scan of various bid packs mixed with what I’ve seen... the company has you for 14/28 on average. Note that that’s on paper at bid award time. DH deviations, conflict bidding, trip trading can all lower days away from home or you can drop trips (pay) to do the same. Perhaps some of those ONT trips have 2330 show times or 2am finishes which counts as a “day” vs a day off, skewing the numbers...?
IMHO, if you don’t live close to ONT just bid SDF 75/76 and get a feel for the system’s idiosyncrasies for the first 6months to a year. Transfer into ONT if it looks palatable. If you live on ONT, bid it. If it sucks you can always bid out to Sdf. You’re not going to know until you get your feet wet.
————————
“Reserve goes senior here:”
This is an outdated paradigm. It’s highly dependent on fleet, seat, domicile, staffing levels, reserve type, and global events.
-1900L Sunday show for a DH up to SJC
- 18hr l/o then 1900 departure to SDF
- sit sort then go to MFE at 0430, l/o
- same type of thing for next 2 nights but leaving out of SDF, a 2 legger to the l/o
- finish thur am in BOI, CML DH back to domicile that evening. (This is a paid ticket).
Here’s an easy 4 day:
-1am show, operate ONT - SLC - SDF, l/o
- day 2, 2 am show operate SDF LAX
- day 3, go back to Sdf at 5 am
-day 4, back to ONT, finish at 5am
Flipping through it, to me, nothing seems ‘horrible (relatively speaking).’ Looks like standard night flying though the devil is in the details so I’ll defer to the ONT peeps to tell it how it is.
—————-
Bottom ONT FOs got reserve, VTOs to those just above as well as base lines (mixed bag lines). The 5/8 stuff tended to go to the more senior but awards seem really scattered across the board compared to what I’m used to.
The MD (SDF) flies to ONT quite a bit. Imagine one could find a nice niche living in SoCal flying that thing.
—————
Days off per PP (28 days): A quick, and I mean a quick scan of various bid packs mixed with what I’ve seen... the company has you for 14/28 on average. Note that that’s on paper at bid award time. DH deviations, conflict bidding, trip trading can all lower days away from home or you can drop trips (pay) to do the same. Perhaps some of those ONT trips have 2330 show times or 2am finishes which counts as a “day” vs a day off, skewing the numbers...?
IMHO, if you don’t live close to ONT just bid SDF 75/76 and get a feel for the system’s idiosyncrasies for the first 6months to a year. Transfer into ONT if it looks palatable. If you live on ONT, bid it. If it sucks you can always bid out to Sdf. You’re not going to know until you get your feet wet.
————————
“Reserve goes senior here:”
This is an outdated paradigm. It’s highly dependent on fleet, seat, domicile, staffing levels, reserve type, and global events.
Any chance the USPS contract increases the amount of day flying out of ONT?
TIA!
04-07-2024, 03:57 PM
#25
maxing the min/Moderator
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: 757
Posts: 1,355
Originally Posted by surfandsnow
Is this statement still accurate for today's ONT flying?
Any chance the USPS contract increases the amount of day flying out of ONT?
TIA!
Any chance the USPS contract increases the amount of day flying out of ONT?
TIA!
04-07-2024, 07:24 PM
#27
maxing the min/Moderator
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: 757
Posts: 1,355
Originally Posted by Lowslung
But it did add 6 ONT Capts. Depending on how things shake out, there might be a few ONT FO spots available for newhires.
04-08-2024, 02:23 AM
#28
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,512
Originally Posted by surfandsnow
Any chance the USPS contract increases the amount of day flying out of ONT?
I would not base my decision to come to UPS on the assumption of day flying anywhere.
04-08-2024, 05:56 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 543
Our scheduling reps have been fighting for a bigger chunk of daytime flying for a while. Idk if it'll happen with the USPS contract or not. Our lines are pretty brutal in ONT to be honest. To the point where we have a few people who live in SoCal but but bid SDFZ or the whale to avoide the schedules. Some of our flying has gotten better since business slowed down. I'd imagine that's not going to last. Here's a few examples of what you'll see in ONT.
Day 1 (Sunday evening) CML ONT-OAK
Day 2 1500 report OAK-SNA-SDF Duty ends at 0200ish
Day 3 1500 report SDF-LAX Duty ends 1730
Day 4 0500 report LAX-SDF Duty ends 1300ish
Day 5 1500 report SDF-SNA-limo to ONT Duty ends 1900ish
Day 1 (Sunday night) ONT-CLT-BDL commercial (arrive in BDL 9ish Monday morning)
Day 2 (Monday night) BDL-PHL-ALB-SYR
Day 3 (Tuesday night) SYR-BUF-PHL-ALB-SYR
Day 4 (Wednesday night) SYR-SDF
Day 5 (Thurday afternoon) SDF-OAK-ONT (Commercial)
This is just a small sample of the flying we have out in ONT. The first trip is pretty easy for the most part but has several body clock flips you'll have to deal with. There are also harder variations of this trip also. On day 4 i've seen LGB-limo to ONT-BDL-RFD. Your duty starts at 915am on the west coast and ends at 1130pm central. I've done event reports every time I experience this and it continues to "model well".
The second trip is a ball buster, and it's usually all outside of the EDW (Early Duty Window) for ONT crews, which is an entirely different conversation. In this bid packet there were a few 4 leg nights out there and 3 is the norm unfortunately. Schedules aside we have a pretty good group out here and that counts for a lot IMO. Buyer beware we also don't have international or Hawaii flying anymore and idk if it will come back with this USPS contract.
We used to have some pretty rough night flying lines as well. (ONT-PHX 4hr sit-PHL). You'd leave ONT at 1250am and land in PHL at 1330ish. I haven't seen much of that lately but I wouldn't be surprised if it's still out there. We also have a handful of daytime and night turn lines (think Allegiant flying). it's usually
- ONT-DEN-ABQ-ONT/ONT-RFD-ONT/ONT-BIL-BOI-ONT
You'd do some variation of this 3 maybe 4 days a week. They used to go senior before the senior folks found out that reserve was a good deal. Now they're pretty junior but they'll probably end up going senior again as more folks get used on reserve.
I'm in the same mindset of Jetlaggy when it comes to the size of the base. The 6 captain vacancies they had for ONT pretty much covered the retirements from the VTP and a few that happened aftewards. This time last year we had 115ish FO's on the list out here. We're at 87 not with no vacancies. Even back in October we had 97. I'd imagine it won't be hard to get since we have a few people who commute from out east that are ready to get to SDF i'd imagine and probably a few senior FO's that'll take an upgrade.
Day 1 (Sunday evening) CML ONT-OAK
Day 2 1500 report OAK-SNA-SDF Duty ends at 0200ish
Day 3 1500 report SDF-LAX Duty ends 1730
Day 4 0500 report LAX-SDF Duty ends 1300ish
Day 5 1500 report SDF-SNA-limo to ONT Duty ends 1900ish
Day 1 (Sunday night) ONT-CLT-BDL commercial (arrive in BDL 9ish Monday morning)
Day 2 (Monday night) BDL-PHL-ALB-SYR
Day 3 (Tuesday night) SYR-BUF-PHL-ALB-SYR
Day 4 (Wednesday night) SYR-SDF
Day 5 (Thurday afternoon) SDF-OAK-ONT (Commercial)
This is just a small sample of the flying we have out in ONT. The first trip is pretty easy for the most part but has several body clock flips you'll have to deal with. There are also harder variations of this trip also. On day 4 i've seen LGB-limo to ONT-BDL-RFD. Your duty starts at 915am on the west coast and ends at 1130pm central. I've done event reports every time I experience this and it continues to "model well".
The second trip is a ball buster, and it's usually all outside of the EDW (Early Duty Window) for ONT crews, which is an entirely different conversation. In this bid packet there were a few 4 leg nights out there and 3 is the norm unfortunately. Schedules aside we have a pretty good group out here and that counts for a lot IMO. Buyer beware we also don't have international or Hawaii flying anymore and idk if it will come back with this USPS contract.
We used to have some pretty rough night flying lines as well. (ONT-PHX 4hr sit-PHL). You'd leave ONT at 1250am and land in PHL at 1330ish. I haven't seen much of that lately but I wouldn't be surprised if it's still out there. We also have a handful of daytime and night turn lines (think Allegiant flying). it's usually
- ONT-DEN-ABQ-ONT/ONT-RFD-ONT/ONT-BIL-BOI-ONT
You'd do some variation of this 3 maybe 4 days a week. They used to go senior before the senior folks found out that reserve was a good deal. Now they're pretty junior but they'll probably end up going senior again as more folks get used on reserve.
I'm in the same mindset of Jetlaggy when it comes to the size of the base. The 6 captain vacancies they had for ONT pretty much covered the retirements from the VTP and a few that happened aftewards. This time last year we had 115ish FO's on the list out here. We're at 87 not with no vacancies. Even back in October we had 97. I'd imagine it won't be hard to get since we have a few people who commute from out east that are ready to get to SDF i'd imagine and probably a few senior FO's that'll take an upgrade.
04-08-2024, 06:39 PM
#30
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2021
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by seminolepilot
Our scheduling reps have been fighting for a bigger chunk of daytime flying for a while. Idk if it'll happen with the USPS contract or not. Our lines are pretty brutal in ONT to be honest. To the point where we have a few people who live in SoCal but but bid SDFZ or the whale to avoide the schedules. Some of our flying has gotten better since business slowed down. I'd imagine that's not going to last. Here's a few examples of what you'll see in ONT.
Day 1 (Sunday evening) CML ONT-OAK
Day 2 1500 report OAK-SNA-SDF Duty ends at 0200ish
Day 3 1500 report SDF-LAX Duty ends 1730
Day 4 0500 report LAX-SDF Duty ends 1300ish
Day 5 1500 report SDF-SNA-limo to ONT Duty ends 1900ish
Day 1 (Sunday night) ONT-CLT-BDL commercial (arrive in BDL 9ish Monday morning)
Day 2 (Monday night) BDL-PHL-ALB-SYR
Day 3 (Tuesday night) SYR-BUF-PHL-ALB-SYR
Day 4 (Wednesday night) SYR-SDF
Day 5 (Thurday afternoon) SDF-OAK-ONT (Commercial)
This is just a small sample of the flying we have out in ONT. The first trip is pretty easy for the most part but has several body clock flips you'll have to deal with. There are also harder variations of this trip also. On day 4 i've seen LGB-limo to ONT-BDL-RFD. Your duty starts at 915am on the west coast and ends at 1130pm central. I've done event reports every time I experience this and it continues to "model well".
The second trip is a ball buster, and it's usually all outside of the EDW (Early Duty Window) for ONT crews, which is an entirely different conversation. In this bid packet there were a few 4 leg nights out there and 3 is the norm unfortunately. Schedules aside we have a pretty good group out here and that counts for a lot IMO. Buyer beware we also don't have international or Hawaii flying anymore and idk if it will come back with this USPS contract.
We used to have some pretty rough night flying lines as well. (ONT-PHX 4hr sit-PHL). You'd leave ONT at 1250am and land in PHL at 1330ish. I haven't seen much of that lately but I wouldn't be surprised if it's still out there. We also have a handful of daytime and night turn lines (think Allegiant flying). it's usually
- ONT-DEN-ABQ-ONT/ONT-RFD-ONT/ONT-BIL-BOI-ONT
You'd do some variation of this 3 maybe 4 days a week. They used to go senior before the senior folks found out that reserve was a good deal. Now they're pretty junior but they'll probably end up going senior again as more folks get used on reserve.
I'm in the same mindset of Jetlaggy when it comes to the size of the base. The 6 captain vacancies they had for ONT pretty much covered the retirements from the VTP and a few that happened aftewards. This time last year we had 115ish FO's on the list out here. We're at 87 not with no vacancies. Even back in October we had 97. I'd imagine it won't be hard to get since we have a few people who commute from out east that are ready to get to SDF i'd imagine and probably a few senior FO's that'll take an upgrade.
Day 1 (Sunday evening) CML ONT-OAK
Day 2 1500 report OAK-SNA-SDF Duty ends at 0200ish
Day 3 1500 report SDF-LAX Duty ends 1730
Day 4 0500 report LAX-SDF Duty ends 1300ish
Day 5 1500 report SDF-SNA-limo to ONT Duty ends 1900ish
Day 1 (Sunday night) ONT-CLT-BDL commercial (arrive in BDL 9ish Monday morning)
Day 2 (Monday night) BDL-PHL-ALB-SYR
Day 3 (Tuesday night) SYR-BUF-PHL-ALB-SYR
Day 4 (Wednesday night) SYR-SDF
Day 5 (Thurday afternoon) SDF-OAK-ONT (Commercial)
This is just a small sample of the flying we have out in ONT. The first trip is pretty easy for the most part but has several body clock flips you'll have to deal with. There are also harder variations of this trip also. On day 4 i've seen LGB-limo to ONT-BDL-RFD. Your duty starts at 915am on the west coast and ends at 1130pm central. I've done event reports every time I experience this and it continues to "model well".
The second trip is a ball buster, and it's usually all outside of the EDW (Early Duty Window) for ONT crews, which is an entirely different conversation. In this bid packet there were a few 4 leg nights out there and 3 is the norm unfortunately. Schedules aside we have a pretty good group out here and that counts for a lot IMO. Buyer beware we also don't have international or Hawaii flying anymore and idk if it will come back with this USPS contract.
We used to have some pretty rough night flying lines as well. (ONT-PHX 4hr sit-PHL). You'd leave ONT at 1250am and land in PHL at 1330ish. I haven't seen much of that lately but I wouldn't be surprised if it's still out there. We also have a handful of daytime and night turn lines (think Allegiant flying). it's usually
- ONT-DEN-ABQ-ONT/ONT-RFD-ONT/ONT-BIL-BOI-ONT
You'd do some variation of this 3 maybe 4 days a week. They used to go senior before the senior folks found out that reserve was a good deal. Now they're pretty junior but they'll probably end up going senior again as more folks get used on reserve.
I'm in the same mindset of Jetlaggy when it comes to the size of the base. The 6 captain vacancies they had for ONT pretty much covered the retirements from the VTP and a few that happened aftewards. This time last year we had 115ish FO's on the list out here. We're at 87 not with no vacancies. Even back in October we had 97. I'd imagine it won't be hard to get since we have a few people who commute from out east that are ready to get to SDF i'd imagine and probably a few senior FO's that'll take an upgrade.
Thanks for the detailed explanation. This type of flying is definitely not for the faint of heart. I can see why even UPS pilots who live in SoCal would rather commute than fly these types of lines.
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