Haha we have reached the point in contract negotiation despair where the insult of choice is “sheep”. Come on, we will never stick it to the company with lame insults like that.

I’m not sure that comparison is accurate.
FedEx and WGA did not have access to the same information UPS did at the time. UPS had immediate access to frame-by-frame, high-definition video of the takeoff sequence from its own cameras, captured moments after the event. Yet, they still decided to let the MD continue to fly. Even on the day of the crash.

FedEx and WGA made their decisions without that level of detail. In fact, many of us were surprised when the NTSB’s first preliminary report revealed that the source of the frame-by-frame takeoff footage was UPS.

My response is not about BK but the statement. The EB approves every position. If you pi$$ off the wrong person, you will NEVER be allowed to do any union work. Even after the person is no longer part of the EB. That’s a lame argument.

Lastly, it has been pretty much proven people won’t vote for someone who hasn’t done union work. TK was the last and he has his own fan club.

For the Corvette and cell phone holster crowd, there is no harsher burn. These are the same people who get a virus trying to electronically undress Pam Bondi.

I had pics of an engine lying by the side of the runway within hours. The tug driver video (viral on the Internet within the initial hour) showed #2 was affected. What did the frame by frame change beyond confirmation of what was already obvious? Also, NTSB would have probably had access to UPS’s video pretty early on so they could have acted…and we don’t even know if that was the smoking gun that led to the grounding or just a data point confirmation after some other evidence forced their move. As I understand it, it was discovery of the fatigue cracking on the pylon that led to the grounding…

My 2 cents: an EB position is not the student council. They are responsible for our careers and the security of all of us, our families, and staff. An EB position is not a basic training ground for those wanting to serve. That’s what volunteer positions and committee chair roles do. Exceptions, sure, like having prior chair or MEC experience at previous carrier (TH on our NC being an example), or some prior corporate career that transfers, fine, but zero to hero, no way. Took me 6 yrs to get on a committee. Now I’m on 2. Looking back, yeah, I had a little growing up to do + become UPS wiser so I can see they had valid reasons for waiting and seeing about me. But to pi$$ them off and blacklist yourself you really have to be disagreeable, uncooperative, counterproductive (open aggressively critical) and/or a loose cannon. Would you want that kind of personality profile on your team?!?

Trust me, it doesn’t have to be public.

If you point out blatant issues/inconsistencies privately, you’ll be blacklisted. It’s not counterproductive, it’s holding them to what a union is supposed to do. You know, protect seniority (issue before you got to UPS)

OK, but the remedy is to let anyone who wants to volunteer, volunteer. I think we all agree they should have some discretion. If the allegation is they squash dissent and criticism, you can go on the B&G and see plenty of examples of committee chairs and Gen volunteers NOT cheerleading for the board and openly, albeit gently/discreetly/diplomatically disagreeing with things they say and do. BV has been hashed out enough over there so let’s not introduce that example and cause another 10page debate.

Another point is: how much of a problem is this? Most people who want to volunteer and show some persistence find themselves a place. I feel we are talking about the rare exceptions but portraying it as a systemic problem.

A union came to their group all enthused;

“We got the top contract in the business, 20% above anyone else, 12 weeks vacation, 35% direct contribution, all new airframes within three years, a total win! There is of course one caveat; you have to work every Tuesday!”

The whole room exploded; “This place sucks, EVERY TUESDAY!!,”

Thanks for dusting off that old chestnut. But you aren't here. It's not great, right now. As witnessed by the fact that I flew with another F/O with ~5 years of seniority a week ago who came here from Atlas, and he spent the majority of the time we were sitting up front together lamenting the fact that he'd made the switch.

I'm not miserably unhappy, but I'm also not psyched, and yeah, if I knew then what I know now, I probably would have tried to go to Delta. That said, as per the comment above, I believe that the EB will, in time, get us a contract worth voting for. IMHO, our best move now is to support them in doing so, rather than backbiting and sniping.