A typical day is....
#1
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A typical day is....
I'm trying to understand what a typical day will be like for a new hire F.O. at AWI. It appears that on an average day, crews fly about four one-hour legs. But I'm wondering over how many hours of the day those four flights are spread. I see Flightaware light up with AWI planes at 6:00 am, and planes are still flying late into the evening. What is the length of a crew's typical "shift" from beginning to end of duty?
#2
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Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 101
I'm trying to understand what a typical day will be like for a new hire F.O. at AWI. It appears that on an average day, crews fly about four one-hour legs. But I'm wondering over how many hours of the day those four flights are spread. I see Flightaware light up with AWI planes at 6:00 am, and planes are still flying late into the evening. What is the length of a crew's typical "shift" from beginning to end of duty?
Also: I would say 3 legs a day is average. Plenty of 1 leg days and a number of 4 and some 5 leg days.
#4
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[what a typical day looks like from a pay perspective]
Actually, I'm trying to understand a typical day from a "work" prospective. Your reference to FAR117 pulled up a good ALPA document that will probably cover much of my question : http://www3.alpa.org/portals/alpa/co...quirements.pdf
Still, it looks like a 12 to 13 hour duty day is permissible with a 4-leg trip starting at 6:00 or 7:00 am. Is it typical to be on duty for 12 to 13 hours in a day? Or does AWI try to avoid paying trip rigs by keeping your duty time to 2X your flight time?
[if it’s a late show time or early finish]
I think this is getting to the point of what I am trying to ask. How many hours is a "regular" duty day? One that doesn't involved either a "late show" or "early finish." I realize they vary, but on regular days, how many hours of duty do you guys typically expect?
Actually, I'm trying to understand a typical day from a "work" prospective. Your reference to FAR117 pulled up a good ALPA document that will probably cover much of my question : http://www3.alpa.org/portals/alpa/co...quirements.pdf
Still, it looks like a 12 to 13 hour duty day is permissible with a 4-leg trip starting at 6:00 or 7:00 am. Is it typical to be on duty for 12 to 13 hours in a day? Or does AWI try to avoid paying trip rigs by keeping your duty time to 2X your flight time?
[if it’s a late show time or early finish]
I think this is getting to the point of what I am trying to ask. How many hours is a "regular" duty day? One that doesn't involved either a "late show" or "early finish." I realize they vary, but on regular days, how many hours of duty do you guys typically expect?
Last edited by AV810; 04-28-2018 at 04:11 AM. Reason: because I want to
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 171
[what a typical day looks like from a pay perspective]
Actually, I'm trying to understand a typical day from a "work" prospective. Your reference to FAR117 pulled up a good ALPA document that will probably cover much of my question : http://www3.alpa.org/portals/alpa/co...quirements.pdf
Still, it looks like a 12 to 13 hour duty day is permissible with a 4-leg trip starting at 6:00 or 7:00 am. Is it typical to be on duty for 12 to 13 hours in a day? Or does AWI try to avoid paying trip rigs by keeping your duty time to 2X your flight time?
[if it’s a late show time or early finish]
I think this is getting to the point of what I am trying to ask. How many hours is a "regular" duty day? One that doesn't involved either a "late show" or "early finish." I realize they vary, but on regular days, how many hours of duty do you guys typically expect?
Actually, I'm trying to understand a typical day from a "work" prospective. Your reference to FAR117 pulled up a good ALPA document that will probably cover much of my question : http://www3.alpa.org/portals/alpa/co...quirements.pdf
Still, it looks like a 12 to 13 hour duty day is permissible with a 4-leg trip starting at 6:00 or 7:00 am. Is it typical to be on duty for 12 to 13 hours in a day? Or does AWI try to avoid paying trip rigs by keeping your duty time to 2X your flight time?
[if it’s a late show time or early finish]
I think this is getting to the point of what I am trying to ask. How many hours is a "regular" duty day? One that doesn't involved either a "late show" or "early finish." I realize they vary, but on regular days, how many hours of duty do you guys typically expect?
The way our schedules are built right now, expect to be on duty for 10-12 hours at least 2 out of 4 days on a trip. You will probably have at least one 5 leg day. We also have plenty of long overnights, so you will probably have at least one 18 hour plus layover.
#6
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[The way our schedules are built right now, expect to be on duty for 10-12 hours at least 2 out of 4 days on a trip. You will probably have at least one 5 leg day. We also have plenty of long overnights, so you will probably have at least one 18 hour plus layover.]
Great answer, thanks! Which leads to next question (sorry, that's how it is when you're a newbie ): I assume I should expect roughly five 3 or 4-day trips per month. That makes 18-20 duty days. Then, being newbie scum, I have to commute to MKE the night before and probably home the day after (since the commute is a 2-legger). So now I'm on duty about 20 days and commuting about 10 days per month, meaning I get days home only on months with 31 days? Is that close to reality for my first year, or am I missing something?
Great answer, thanks! Which leads to next question (sorry, that's how it is when you're a newbie ): I assume I should expect roughly five 3 or 4-day trips per month. That makes 18-20 duty days. Then, being newbie scum, I have to commute to MKE the night before and probably home the day after (since the commute is a 2-legger). So now I'm on duty about 20 days and commuting about 10 days per month, meaning I get days home only on months with 31 days? Is that close to reality for my first year, or am I missing something?
Last edited by AV810; 04-28-2018 at 04:52 AM. Reason: for the eloquence of language
#7
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Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 33
[The way our schedules are built right now, expect to be on duty for 10-12 hours at least 2 out of 4 days on a trip. You will probably have at least one 5 leg day. We also have plenty of long overnights, so you will probably have at least one 18 hour plus layover.]
Great answer, thanks! Which leads to next question (sorry, that's how it is when you're a newbie ): I assume I should expect roughly five 3 or 4-day trips per month. That makes 18-20 duty days. Then, being newbie scum, I have to commute to MKE the night before and probably home the day after (since the commute is a 2-legger). So now I'm on duty about 20 days and commuting about 10 days per month, meaning I get days home only on months with 31 days? Is that close to reality for my first year, or am I missing something?
Great answer, thanks! Which leads to next question (sorry, that's how it is when you're a newbie ): I assume I should expect roughly five 3 or 4-day trips per month. That makes 18-20 duty days. Then, being newbie scum, I have to commute to MKE the night before and probably home the day after (since the commute is a 2-legger). So now I'm on duty about 20 days and commuting about 10 days per month, meaning I get days home only on months with 31 days? Is that close to reality for my first year, or am I missing something?
A couple of tips
1. If you get stuck with no commutability you can always look for flying on day 7 (the day before your next trip starts) that you can pick up that ends in domicile (MKE) it pays 1.5 or 2 times the rate AND it makes it harder to jr man you at the end of your trip.
2. Try and trade for trips in pen time that may be more commutable out of ORD or IAD. The company may be less likely to approve this so be opportunistic. If they are really short on some days you have off put in a request to pick up flying and package your trio swaps in. for example.
You are scheduled to fly this schedule that is in-commutable on both ends out of MKE.
May 3-7
May 11-14
May18-21
May 25-28
you found a couple of trips out of ORD that you like on May 11-14 and May 25-28 however your trade requested was denied "lack of compassion and understanding on my part PG"
a couple days later the company is really short over integration May 1-3 and is offering critical pay for those days. You find a 2 day trip in MKE May 2-3 and add a request and include text like this.
" I am willing to add this two day trip if you will approve these two trades as well" and submit the same two trade earlier denied. If they are desperate it often works.
ask the guys that you are flying with for advice. The are a very knowledgeable group.
Make the Admiral proud.
#9
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Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 101
Air Wisconsin does avoid paying duty rigs. That’s the whole point of duty rigs. Pilots want to make sure we get compensated for the time we spend on duty. It is an incentive for the company to build productive trips. If you are on duty for 12 hours they are going to do their best to make sure you had 6 hours of actual flying in the 12 hour period so they don’t have to pay you for sitting in the airport watching Netflix. If you are on duty for 8 hours they will do their best to make sure you flew at least 4. They couldn’t care less how long you are on duty except as that relates to how much flying you did during that period on duty.
For what it’s worth, I don’t know anyone who care how long their duty days are. Sure it’s a bit annoying when you see that today is a 14 hour day and you don’t feel like doing anything. But it’s built into the lifestyle of flying for an airline. Every day is totally different from the last and you will have easy days and hard days.
Again, there is literally not an answer to this question besides zero to what you see in the FAR 117 Limits. On average maybe 9 hours? My first 4 day in May has the following duty days:
Day 1: 9 hrs
Day 2: 6 hrs
Day 3: 11 hrs
Day 4: 5 hrs
My second 4 day is: 9,9,9,6 hrs
Third: 8,11,5,7
The first two MKE 4 day trips in open time:
6,9,11,8
5,5,10,9
#10
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I see that after checking out in the CRJ, I'll need a type rating in the bid and scheduling system. If I'm based out of MKE, is it then possible to occasionally end my duty time at ORD or IAD with this creative trading of which you speak? Either one offers a much better commute home.
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