Originally Posted by Escargot

Am I reading the language right? Looks like open time pickups goes from 150/200% to 100/150%.

Originally Posted by Omnislash

I can assure you that I will see it in my check. Here is the start of your bad math. Also if you get a raise, your paycheck won't stay the same if the hours worked stay the same (I'm a bit worried that I have to even explain that to you). Why are you worth more than market wages? Just because you want to be? What is the market rate for a pure 50 seat aircraft and not a blended rate? It looks like we already are above the average market rate for it. How long will it take for them to come up with something better and would we actually get back the value of what we give up now and more at that point in time?



We get it. You are a "No" and you want everyone else to be but you have yet to give an actual argument that makes sense. We are obviously gaining things and certainly not losing money on this (here is the continuation of your bad math and the start of your deception and fear mongering).



I agree that we deserve better, but if you actually read what you are voting on, you will get two raises in the next 18 months on top of your longevity raise every year and the 1.5% raise to the entire payscale every year (does any other airline even get that?). Then we get some small work rule improvements as well.



They all voted for it this time. That didn't happen last time so something must have changed for the better.



We told them "no" last time. What did we win? They didn't offer us back pay for all the time we have been in negotiations. I think you should take your own advice to get a better understanding of the process and what's at stake. I disagree with you on getting that understanding from reading posts on here. There is certainly some good info on here, but more often than not, the posts on here are from angry people that want to spread misinformation to push their own agenda. I have felt a bit like an idiot at Skybridge this week when I brought up some of the stuff that has been posted on here only to be shown that the issues were completely false! It's ok though, I got over it by indulging in greasy food that will make me glad that I have awesome health insurance down the road!



I'm still waiting for facts that prove any of your points...



Actual facts don't sway you but you still spread inaccurate information to sway others to push your own personal agenda...



We already tried that. Did they come with anything a whole lot better? What leverage do you think we have that would command language and pay that are industry leading? We already have things that even the Mainline carriers would love to have. Commuter hotels? That obviously has a cost. What would the entire pilot group (including us that live in base) be willing to give up to pay for that? Paid swaps? I don't know of anyone getting that but I agree that it would be nice. Again, that costs money. What would we give to get that? If you think that the Company wouldn't want anything in return, you are not only ignorant, but naive as well. I'd like you to become the negotiator if we lived in your fantasy world! Get us 777 rates while you are at it because we deserve that too!



Ok you still are a no vote, can't provide any facts to prove any of your points, and are getting frustrated that all your points are being proved to be false...



Thanks. I don't think anyone actually knew that yet



...Still not a single solid argument.



I hope you can see that it's become obvious to the rest of us that you are angry and there probably isn't anything that would actually please you. That's a pretty sad way to live and I truly feel bad for you. I want a whole lot more out of this contract too. I actually think we deserve more and should have gotten a better offer. The facts are that we already said no (twice and they didn't come back to us with giant pay raises either time), there is real money on the table now (some right at DOS this time), and some work rule benefits. Spreading lies and fear mongering doesn't help any of us. I respect your right to vote how ever you want, but I find your deception, pushing of your hatred, and ignorance to be more disrespectful to the rest of the pilot group than anything the company has offered us in the last three TAs!

Originally Posted by idlethrust

You’re obviously a union rep or a company tool trying to push this bs on everyone. No matter what you say I’m not changing my mind. No, I’m not angry , I have a very good life but settling for this bs is nonsense. I would rather have things status quo rather than get chumped off with this crap.
I’m the end , everyone eligible will vote however they see fit but hopefully people will see what’s really going on and demand better , demand more , dont settle. Usally when you “ settle “ for something you end up regretting it.

Originally Posted by flightlessbirds

Section 3B:

Allows the company to NOT pay 150% for all open time pick ups — they get 6 types of open time (PTO, Mil Leave, Lieu, Jury Dity, Bereavement, and Association Leave) where they don’t have to pay 150% — this seems to be a concession to me.

I don’t care about the source of the open time — if I pick it up I want to be paid 150% or better.

Originally Posted by flightlessbirds

I don’t care for the weakening of the DH chapter —

-Allows greater than 30 mile DH surface transportation.
-Weakens language on positive space for DH to follow whatever mainline tells us.
-New language on DH release doesn’t actually change anything.

Also I really don’t like losing the ‘8 hours of actual behind the door time at the RON hotel’ from section 12. 10 hrs from block in doesn’t protect from hours waiting to get an unscheduled RON hotel or delayed transportation.

Originally Posted by Omnislash

The greater than 30 mile DH language sounds like what we were already doing when we were flying planes to Ft. Worth for paint.

The DH language definitely got worse. It's now positive space...maybe

DH release sounds nice except CS still hadhas to approve it.

If you are worried about time at the hotel being delayed for it to be scheduled or getting a van ride, I think it explicitly covers us by saying 8 hours behind the door. 117 actually gives us better language if we need it.

Originally Posted by flightlessbirds

The 8 hours behind the door is in the current book. That is gone from TA3. That was what I was trying to say — sorry for not being clear.

Originally Posted by Omnislash

Doesn't the current contract allow them to not even publish open time for those exact things? At least now we could swap into those trips if they are better than what we already have. If no one picks it up, it will probably get assigned to a reserve who is going to get it at straight time anyway! I bet the company will change those trips to critical to get them covered if they really needed to.