pitchtrim

They'd already be over there. Only time we saw a mass exodus was when the American flying was ending and we had no future flying in sight.

tonsterboy5

Only benefit is in 2 years we get to re-negotiate and hopefully we don’t sign away our right to strike. I understand getting the nlmb to release us would take 5 years but at the rate contracts are negotiated here it would be a win sooner or later.

flightlessbirds

I think we are more likely to get to that point if we reject this current TA. That would give a mandate to change the Union leadership to be less ‘cuddly’ towards the company.

Omnislash

If it's so measly, please feel free to write a check for everyone else that would like some extra money every month. Also, your math is almost as bad as idlethrust. That's NOT a joke.

Omnislash

Why would they go there if they haven't already? You must not really know anything about their work rules and benefits apart from their payrates. The grass is always greener, right? If it's so great at both of those places, why haven't you left yet? A mass exodus after a TA passes? Pretty sure that isn't the way it usually works. I hope you lead the charge though!

Omnislash

How would it be more likely to get to negotiating in two years by saying no when there is actually a defined start point in in the TA. If you are talking about strike, you must not actually understand how that process works. If Frontier couldn't get it, no one will!

Who's "cuddly" with management? Do you really think that those guys would do that? What would be in it for them?

DarkSideMoon

Relax. This TA is not good enough to get that worked up over. It will net me approximately an extra $75 a month post tax over the next 18 months. That’s barely a rounding error to me. There are some improvements to training (which honestly should’ve happened independently of a contract) that basically cost the company nothing. There are some mediocre improvements to junior manning. There is an attempt at making the surface deadhead thing go away (I get the feeling there will be just as many “extraordinary circumstances” as there were “irregular operations” in the past). In return we give up some ready reserve QOL (gotta bring your flight kit with you to take a walk or get good further than McDonald’s), guaranteed competitive pay rates for larger aircraft (I’ve crunched the numbers, the old pay scale would basically guarantee roughly the same pay ratio to Skywest we already have with the 50 seat rates) and we weakened the deadhead language (I’d bet money they start shoving people in the jumpseat).

Am I missing anything? I’m a soft yes at this point because we have 0 leverage to negotiate anything better, and I think the pros barely outweigh the cons. Aviate will keep new hires coming in and keep costs down with attrition. There’s no need to make us the highest paid regional to attract new hires. That being said, I don’t fault anyone for voting either way on it.

Fly safe, take care of your crew, and focus on the next step. There’s not enough at stake in this contract to stress out over.

Omnislash

That response was quoting and in response to someone else who has a pattern of just posting nonsense without backing anything up. I'm with you though. I don't see anywhere near the kind of pay raise and work rule increases that I wanted to see. I am worried that language will be abused more than it already has been in the past. The guys at Skybridge over the last couple weeks have said that the intent of the language is further documented and is what is expected to be followed. Personally, I would have liked to see that tightened up in what became the final document since CS has no idea what was intended in negotiations and has a reputation of interpreting the language to say what they want it to say based on what they need it to say for any given circumstance.

The ready reserve thing is quite funny when you think of how far crew room is from the operation in the various bases. IAD is so far even if you are in the ready room when you get the call.

The 70 seat thing doesn't bother me much because we haven't had one in my time here and I don't see us needing one anytime soon. With keeping the old rates (with the annual increase) we aren't even above average. There are some outliers with the top end and low end of the scale, but the average is closer to on par with the what others in the industry are getting. For that, I don't see much of a loss if any at all.

I'm totally with you on your parting sentiment. Let's be professional, take care of each other, and work on more improvements going forward.

...Let's also be sure to have some fun out there!

tonsterboy5

We can’t even strike if we want to and somehow got the nlmb to go along because at the beginning of these negotiations years ago our mec signed away our right to strike.

DarkSideMoon

When/how did that happen?