This merger presents such a big opportunity for Alaska to reinvent itself, create a brand identity outside of PNW and be a great airline that shines. They have somewhat of a blank canvas and can do anything...and they choose very little growth, pushing loyal passenger away, and labor tensions.

Angle Lake has always been afraid of its own shadow. They are afraid to take risks and do something outside of the norm for them.

Just look at their arguments about how "we've done things this way for 85 years". That's what I've ever heard since I've been here. "We've never done that before."

They are just managers with no vision. This has been mentioned on here by others who have had the pleasure of working for AAG. They are comfortable pinching pennies and fighting the labor groups.

Anyway, it's going to catch up with them. It's not just pilot morale that's low. It's the FAs, mechanics, CSAs, etc. The company has been squeezing every work group for more, while paying less. On top of that, the company doesn't provide the work groups with what the employees have been asking for to do their jobs more effectively.

Angle Lake needs to wake up, but I'm not holding my breath. They are going to run this company into the ground with the toxic environment they have created. I guess it doesn't matter to the execs and the BOD as they laugh all the way to the bank. If things get really bad, then that's when they cash out and throw us at the mercy of whatever legacy they eventually sell us off to.

Alaska Airlines may not be around in 5 years if things keep going the way they are.

It's a leverage issue. Yes it's a robust pattern bargaining environment but how much are we really going to get? Looking at it from their perspective, why should they pay a penny more than what they are proposing? Ultimately, the only threat that exists is the issue of retention and attraction of pilots. AAG didn't throw money at Horizon out of the goodness of their hearts, they threw money at them because they had issues of retention and attraction, and those numbers were off the charts! Those two issues led to massive cancellations, loss of revenue, and hurt customer service. The story at AS/VX is entirely different.

We can try and sell the idea of retention issues and how people can go to other airlines, but the reality is there won't be a mass exodus. Mgt directly called us out by laying out actual attrition numbers since the merger closed. Only 20 AS and 5 VX guys have left out of ~2700. That's 0.7% attrition in almost one year. Worse case maybe the number jumps to 1-2% tops. You can't get younger and the average age of pilots at the combined company is easily in the 40s. It's not easy to start over, and most people have too much skin vested into this combined company to start over in a seniority-driven industry. So the retention issue isn't an issue - it'll be a non-event. The 2020 decade may be a different story once the 800-900+ retirements per legacy hits, but we're not there yet. This contract is a 2017-2020 contract and by then it'll be a new cycle of negotiations.

The next aspect is attraction for pilots to want to come work here. Even if we get the worst case Alaska pay proposal, there are still enough pilots who like the PNW, Alaska, or the west coast in general that they will come here. Just like they are coming to Spirit right now at $38.50/hr even though their quick upgrades are gone and their growth won't make them CAs for 7-8 years. As far as AS goes, it still doesn't change the fact that pilots from all over the place (regionals, corporate, military) will come to a LCC or a semi-legacy. Some will make a career here, some will try and use it as a springboard to a real legacy airline. Alaska will throw money at us when there is a problem. From the AAG standpoint, AS/VX do not have a problem. Horizon does, but not us.

You missed the point. The LCCs and Alaska aren’t competing to hire the same pilots. Alaska and the big 3 are.

It’s the same pool of pilots. A guy who has his app in at Spirit probably has his app in at Alaska and the 3 legacies as well. Regardless, currently there is no shortage of pilots applying to any of the big 5 airlines.

I disagree. Having recently joined Alaska, and having a lot of friends still looking... if your goal is the big 3, then you’re looking to build your resume by adding a Boeing or Airbus type. That is why people still go to Allegiant, Spirit, Sun Country, etc...and Alaska falls into that category as well.

I do agree that if you stay here for a bit and get some seniority under your belt that you may decide it’s not worth it to move on, and my seniority has not moved much in the last year so attrition is not a problem here.

Exactly. Long ago I became fatigued with all the “great jobs” and “you’re the bests”. The level of disingenuous is an insult.

Empty patronizing rhetoric coupled with low compensation and little flexibility is management 101 for how to demoralize your work group.

So deadlines aren't a thing.


Interesting.

Gee I wonder what happened in the last few days that could cause a delay?

You guys get any word on the arbitration yet?

Yes indeed. W T F!!! “You mean October 29th is on a Sunday? I’ve gotta 9 am tee time, oh $hi+”

Kinda makes you wonder if they intentionally let horizon tank to scew the earnings report, hoping that would prove their point of a struggling airline to the arbitrators... a loss of 30 million horizon dollars is still 79 million less than they would have had to pay by completing this jcba by April.

No, they let Horizon tank because of total ineptitude on their part. They didn't want to pay QX pilots, so they had huge attrition number and many no-shows to new-hire class. It's typical Angle Lake BS. They never learn. They cut everything to the bone and then are surprised by the negative results. Then, they scramble to try to fix the problem. They are always reactive. It's constant chaos over at HQ.

Pathetic! I feel for you guys. We are still getting jerked around over at Spirit by an equally incompetent management team. Any word then on when you will hear? Monday OCT 30th?

Yes, it's now Monday, because arbitrator Javits cannot read a calendar. Seriously though, I'm sure the 3 wanted to get paid for one more day of "work".

Also, I'm sure in the legal world it's acceptable to announce a ruling on Monday, if the actual ruling date falls on a Sunday.

What's one more day? It's not like 2700+ pilots haven't been frustrated about this garbage for several months. They can wait one more day to eat their crap sandwich.

Arbitrator's decision delayed until Monday.....no big surprise there. Nothing we can do about it.
It makes me sad that management continues to go down the path of self destruction. They choose to be blinded by ego, arrogance, greed, and narcissism. What's more unfathomable is the fact that EVERY airline management out there is avidly preparing for competition by building their army through positive reinforcement, motivation, and fair & equitable treatment of their labor groups. Meanwhile, puzzle palace is using the same archaic bully and scare tactics which have been proven to be ineffective and more importantly, known to cause irreparable damage to labor relations. Someone mentioned the words "toxic culture". That about sums it up. If they continue down this destructive path, I fear that Alaska Airlines will be no longer in the next few years or sooner. It reminds of a scene in a movie where the guards are whipping the slaves into submission and eventually there is a massive uprise...we all know how it ends. Sadly, it appears that Kasher and Horizon debacle didn't teach puzzle palace a single lesson. With SWA coming at us in full force and the big three fully armored, cocked, and ready to annihilate, it's just a matter of time until this dwindled operation caves and gets decimated. What's even more frustrating is that management will sail off into the sunset with their millions and we'll be left hanging at the mercy of our competition. Wall Street is right - puzzle palace has lost their mojo and they are in too deep. You can't go from managing a mom & pop mini mart to a neighborhood grocery store without vision, innovation, leadership & management skills, and balls!

Have they announced an actual time for Monday? Probably 1659L or will they align it with Happy Hour at Duke's?

We here at JB are just starting the public displays, did you folks ever do billboards or paper ads? I'm optimistic that'll it'll work for us. Best of luck come Monday.

The general public thinks airline pilots are overpaid as it is. What, do you think the guy with the $60-80k, decent paying, well above median income, job is going to look at your billboard every day on his way to busting his ass at work and say: "You know, those guys deserve to top out at 5 times what I make instead of 4 times what I make, I'm not flying this airline again until those pilots make even more money!"

You have to consider the audience; major airline pilots are neither going to get the sympathy of the people that are going to see a billboard, nor will they deserve it. I personally think, like the rest of us in the industry, that we should be paid fairly and in line with our peers. Good luck selling that to Joe Sixpack though

Considering you live, assuming Seattle, in an area run by Boeing, Microsoft, Amazon, Google, etc and can't buy a house for under 500K, and Sea-Tac drivers make $15 an hour, yes I probably would have tried that avenue.

or just mention your paid __% less than your other hometown airline.

It is such a funny and edgy running joke too, so cool...

The general public is not the target for the media campaign beginning at B6. JB leadership (Fiercely protective of their brand) and specifically the investors (What? Everything isn't all roses and unicorns in Blueland?!) are more likely the intended audience.

Ah, ya like that do ya! How about dead pecker wood? I heard that from a skipper the other day. I thought VX pilots were fun. I guess there’s always the one.

As a previous poster said, AS has always embraced the corporate view of "greedy pilots" and tried to spread that to other labor groups. Remember 50% profit sharing? Why? Because you guys make too much money as it is.

They've relied on the Mileage Program to keep seats full from the State of Alaska forever. Funny thing is now that Delta is pushed into SEA most of the high dollar business flyers who aren't bound for the West Coast are packing Delta flights out of ANC. Easier connections through MSP, DTW and ATL for eastern and international destinations.

It saddens but not surprises me that this is how the Anglers are treating critical employees. A leopard can't change his spots and neither can an Angler.

Didn't Angle Lake put out a Company wide video w/ a Dispatcher or Scheduler saying what over paid babies the pilots are? They will Reap what they Sow. ForeverJunior is spot on, They WILL Eat their Young!

Baja.

Baja,

They didn't put out such a video. The "greedy bastages" comment came from a former pilot scheduler, who is now in FA scheduling. She should have known better than to post anti-pilot stuff on Facebook and Instagram. Screenshots of her ignorant tirades got passed around the pilot group.

Regardless, management has created and fostered the anti-pilot environment. For years, when you'd get on the company website, there was never a word about pilots. No articles written about pilots or anything else even mentioning this one particular work group. It was very noticeable. "These planes pretty much just fly themselves."

More than ever, it is crystal clear that this management hates the pilot group. This is not just vitriol on my part. I've been in it long enough to observe this. They have done a good job of diminishing and undermining this group of employees. We have allowed it to happen though.

This type of tactic works short-term. But, long-term, it will have a negative effect on the whole airline. But then again, this management group only sees what's right in front of them. Just look at all the "money saving" decisions they make, which ends up costing them more in the long run. A good example of this is the door mods on the freighters. The -400 freighter always had problems. Now, I've been told that the -700 freighter that came from Tel Aviv (very late by the way), has problems. It's also apparently 5000 pounds heavier than it was supposed to be.

Sorry for the diatribe and going off on a tangent. :D

Hey, it’s Sunday the 29th. Wasn’t something suppose to happen today?

It's been mentioned before that Javits informed us on Thursday that they are not going to release their decision until Monday (tomorrow).

Turn on your sarcasm detector a little higher please....

I've lost my sense of humor.

I think we all have a little...

Maybe tomorrow will be better.

High 5?

It better be...😉

So how are you guys feeling right now? Does this feel like Christmas Eve, or the last night on death row?

Definitely not Christmas Eve, but not quite death row either.

New hire
 

As a new hire, I can't lose. It will be an improvement for the first 3 years. After that we will see...

Frankly, I don’t really care. What are we supposed to do about it? Stress out? Be offended? The company doesn’t give the slightest Sh*t. They never have.

Good luck guys, Hope you get what you deserve!

I am still trying to understand the Alaska pilots agreeing to arbitration after the last time.

Guess we'll know shortly if they played their hand right.

What obligation is the arbitrator under to render his decision on a specific date? What if he doesn’t? I’ve seen other arbitration’s over a payrate of an aircraft variant that won’t months and months past the “deadline”.

Even when the arbitrator renders a deviation the union could still sit on it for a while while they review it.

Well I would say there is legal obligation as both parties agreed to this deadline as part of the TPA but that deadline has come and gone so I am not ruling out anything at this point.