ImperialxRat

No, nothing has been proven. Both those articles above are good but they're just stating that the Capt has counter-sued both Alaska and Betty for the reasons listed.

I doubt we will ever find out what really happened. As mentioned I'm sure Alaska will settle with him and brush it under the rug and out of the media.

symbian simian

We will never know all that happened on that overnight but in the suit the captain stated a few things that stand out. These are things he did not dispute:
She was in his hotel room.
He missed a call from crew scheduling on his cell phone (as opposed to his phone wasn’t on).
He answered a phone call from CS about their cut off time and got the time mixed up.
The fact the Copilot doesn’t work for Alaska anymore and the allegations of a second alcohol related incident certainly don’t put her in a positive light.
Still, why did they get a two calls during their rest about alcohol usage? You have to wonder who saw what for that to happen. Also the captain’s claim his cellphone was still on the wrong time zone after he missed a call is not very believable, the first thing every phone does when it reconnects is update to the local time.
As far as consent, the way the law works: if you are too drunk to positively give consent, and you end up having sex, you are getting raped, regardless of what sex you are. So, yes, if both of you are too drunk to make a decision and end up in bed together, the first person to cry wolf afterwards has a legal case.
Again, I don’t know what happened, and I am definitely not sure if he should have been fired (especially after she left under “circumstances”), but he isn’t telling the whole story either.

Feel free to correct me if I have any of the facts wrong, I don’t have a personal attachment to the case.

KnockKnock

I think AS’ ability to brush this under the rug passed last March when BP went to the media. It’s been in multiple newspapers multiple times since then. It keeps popping up like whack-a-mole. I hope they have to actually DEAL with it now. Plus, I hope this shines a great big spot light on our lackluster HIMS program.

A Squared

Actually, there are phones which don't reliably update the time when moved to a different time zone. I have owned such phones. Sometimes you can force them to by turning them on and off again, other times it seems that you have to de-select automatic time updating and change to the new time zone manually. This absolutely is plausible, having lived it myself. Additionally, Engelin's lawsuit includes a fair amount of supporting evidence for this. As far as the calls, according to his lawsuit, an FA saw him in the hallway, having left the lounge with a glass of red wine and a glass of white wine, and thought he sounded drunk and called it in. The AS Duty Officer called him on his cell phone, which call he missed, then called his room.

Here's a link to the complaint filed by Engelien It fills in some blanks.

As far as the consent/non-consent stuff, yeah that's all true, as far as it goes, but really what evidence does anyone have that there was sex? The best Pina could come up with was "I know he raped me because I found my panties zipped inside my purse" Even if we assume that here panties were in her purse, the conclusion that it meant he raped her is a non-sequitur of monumental proportions.

symbian simian

Thanks for the info, reading it right now. As far as time updates, the last time I have seen it, was on a flip phone, and I spend a lot of time on technology boards/sites, and haven’t seen any post about it in a long time, hence my doubts.

A Squared

I edited my previous post with a link to the complaint. On the face of it, it seems like he has a pretty good case that his phone didn't update.

zondaracer

On my phone, you can turn off the auto time zone adjustment. Most phones have this.

symbian simian

Based on the picture I have to believe it. I just reset the time on my phone manually and it doesn’t change the time the message/calls show as received. The allegations by MFR he did it afterwards to cover up really makes no sense.
Also you are totally right there is zero evidence of sex, sometimes he/she said can be enough, but you really have to wonder in this case.
When this started I was (and you can check my posts about it) leaning strongly in favor of her, but it definitely seems he got hosed by Alaska. He did everything right after maybe drinking too much and got fired for public relations.
Did she get fired after the second incident or did she walk? How the heck did she get hired again with all this hanging over her head?

dawgdriver

"Pina was ultimately delayed in making her way to the lounge, so Engelian went without her. He later texted Pina the directions. A screen shot of Pina's 1730 CT text exchange with Engelian shows Engelian's cell phone displayed an incorrect time of 15:30."

Could this be physical evidence pointing to an update failure on his phone?

Those quick to judge and convict should take a step back, wait for, THEN weigh in on the FACTS.

Again, I will withhold judgment until this is settled and recommend others do the same.

A Squared

Certainly the possibility exists that sex occurred between them, but it seems to me that neither of them have any memory of whether it did or not. For sure, Pina stated pretty clearly in her lawsuit that he didn't have any recollection. it's a pretty big leap from "I don't really remember anything" to "therefore you drugged and raped me"



It's hard to tell for certain what the technically accurate HR term for her departure from Alaska was. She may have been "given the opportunity to resign". As far as her getting hired again, that was my question: how does anyone imagine that having her work for them would be a good idea?