GaleHrd

Unfortunately, if AS chooses to drag out the lawsuit it’s Engelien who could lose everything financially before any kind of settlement. No telling how much he’s had to fork out just to defend himself from the accusations made by Pina.

dawgdriver

"...but he isn't telling the whole story either". Really? I guess I missed that. Could you please be more specific as to what he is missing and how you've arrived at that conclusion, which happens to conflict with your opening sentence in the same paragraph "I don’t know what happened"

Not referring to this particular case, or playing barracks lawyer, but to your legal assertion as to who has a legal case, shouldn't common sense dictate that if two consenting adults, who KNOWINGLY OPT to pay $11.00 for UNLIMITED alcohol, subsequently get smashed (helloooo..), and jump in bed (...never happens....), they assume equal responsibility for the outcome? Given two people's conscious decision(s) to over-indulge, thereby accepting all potential risks/outcomes, shouldn't they BOTH share equal responsibility, regardless of who cries foul first?

Errors in judgement and crimes committed under the influence, like DUI, aren't excused due to the impaired judgement of the perpetrator.

Back to this case, again, not weighing in, but wasn't the conclusion of the internally appointed investigator (reportedly a female and strong woman's rights advocate) that there was insufficient evidence, no police report, and essentially a case of 'he said/she said'? Wasn't the case dropped and both were re-instated, until Pina saw Engelian in the training center, threatened, and later went to the press and #Metoo?

Mesabah

Don't forget, there is a three hour gap between when they left the concierges room, and when the flight attendant saw them drunk in the hallway, and called the company. That gap in time is what made the drugging story suspicious to me. It's very possible she wanted to stay out drinking, and he had to drag her back to the hotel room. The people who know the captain personally, say he has impeccable character.

dawgdriver

Again, as stated in my opening sentence, the question wasn't referring to this particular case, but symbian's legal claim of two consenting adults getting drunk, having sex, then the first to cry foul having a legal case.

As to the circumstances surrounding FO Pina's claims of being drugged, hopefully the civil suit will come up with concrete evidence, one way or the other. Obviously there was no criminal case as charges were never filed, not even a police report.

I don't know either of them personally but I've heard the same about him. His story, and by his own admission, involved drunken adulterous behavior and showed poor judgement for which he appears to accept full responsibility.

FO Pina, on the other hand, has accused him of a criminal offense, a felony punishable with prison sentences, fines and the very public label of sex offender for the rest of his life.

symbian simian

As you can see from my subsequent post, after reading his court filing, I think the captain was certainly not treated well by Alaska. He went through HIMS, complied with everything and was still fired for unsubstantiated rape allegations.
Having said that, I think if a crew member reports you on a recorded line, not anonymously, you are probably over the limit, the scheduler he talked to also said he sounded drunk, and after using his phone for several hours he still hadn’t realized the time was wrong. Also he drank enough he could not remember getting to his room, after walking out with two glasses of wine 23 minutes before cut off time.
I didn’t see him take any responsibility for that before I read the transcript.



Barracks lawyer reporting for duty:
The problem is, there is very little common sense in the courtroom. Yes, both opted to get drunk. No, just getting drunk does not mean accepting all possible risks/outcomes, saying that is saying every person who gets drunk can’t later claim to have been raped and that would be wrong (I hope you agree here).
Off course, once both are drunk, you get the same situation as two persons with a gun, bumping into each other, and pulling their weapon. If “stand your ground” applies both could legally shoot the other in self defense, so the person shooting first would be innocent (yes, super simplified, will never happen).
In case one accuses the other, the other drunk person can’t claim (as you said) impairment as an excuse.
Never believing victim statements because he said/she said isn’t an option (I think) so we are stuck with the first person to cry wolf will probably come out on top.
Not the best solution, but reality right now.

A Squared

Well, to be more accurate, there is a 2:47 minute gap between when Engelien claimed that they left the Concierge lounge and when the the FODO called his cell phone. How long did the FA consider what to do before he/she picked up the phone to call Flight Ops? What does the FODO do when he gets a call like that? Does he immediately call the captain and say "what's up?", or is there a process started involving others whcih may take some time?

Excargodog

No I DON't agree. The man certainly deserves to be able to make his case, and I wish he had made it earlier, and I have been critical of the whole "Dear Colleague" title IX attitude the #metoo people have advocated from the get-go. We should never give up on the presumption of innocence for political correctness sake. But you also do need to actually be willing to tell your side of the story and fight back, as he is starting to do now, or you are going to lose by default, both in the arena of public opinion and in the courts.

Now all that being said, his own statement that he doesn't khow how he got to his room or how she got to it - even if she was in the claimed adjacent bed - and that he wasn't with it enough to remember the time differences when he got the phone call, scarcely covers him with glory either.

It leaves an impression - factual or otherwise - of someone doing his best to get hammered by drinking heavily right up to the company limit.

Does that in and of itself warrant what the man has gone through? Certainly not. But it certainly doesn't indicate he is entirely blameless either.

This was an incident that could have EASILY been avoided had he made better choices, even if those he made were not illegal or in violation of company policy.

I once interceded to save the career of a young Lieutenant who did something this stupid. But he was a Lieutenant. Fifty year-olds are supposed to know better.

dawgdriver

Do you believe he had the luxury to make his case any earlier?? Like anyone in his situation, he sought legal counsel and was likely instructed to remain clear of all public forums, media and news outlets as anything he said could be used against him. No attorney worth their salt would allow their client to be firing off on public forums and interviews. Seriously, it's common sense.

I'm sure it must've been agonizing remaining silent while many were playing judge and jury, accusing him of date raping a coworker. I believe we can all agree-- himself included, that his debaucherous drunken behavior was unacceptable and he's reportedly taken steps to address his addiction. He is having to accept the consequences for his poor judgement and where the chips will fall. That said, he deserves to have his day in court against his accuser, who, although never filed charges, a police report and has no evidence, nonetheless claims to be a victim of criminal sexual assault.

Always more to the story. Again, I would urge patience.

GaleHrd

The following was originally posted in Yikes2. Interesting his story wasn’t of any interest yet her accusations were a hot topic in the media.....

It is truly devastating that Betty Pina and her attorneys are airing allegations in the press and convicting Captain Engelien in the court of public opinion. Frankly it's upsetting anytime due process is subverted. Per my consultation with a legal ethics professor, because Captain Engelien is not a named party in Betty Pina’s lawsuit and has not been charged with a crime, there is no reason why he can’t defend himself against the allegations and share that he passed a lie detector test. Captain Engelien has a “Right-to-Reply” by law. However, it is my understanding that he is being told by Alaska Airline union reps. and mgt. that he can’t talk about the case. Paul Engelien remains loyal to Alaska Airlines and wants to respect what I believe may be an unlawful and unfair gag order. Never-the-less, Captain Engelien is choosing to follow Alaska Airlines' order not to discuss the case and is refraining from making any statements. However, as his legal advocate, the law allows (may even require) me to share factual information that refutes Pina’s allegations if it’s in my client’s best interest.

To that end, On April 11, 2018, my PR rep. issued the attached press release to the media outlets listed in the chart below. So far NONE of the media outlets have released a follow-up story alerting their readers, listeners or viewer of this development. Sadly, it appears that Pina’s drugging and rape allegations, assertion that this is a #MeToo movement issue and lawsuit against Alaska Airlines generates more interest than the fact that Captain Engelien passed a polygraph exam. The exam results directly refute Pina’s allegations that he drugged and raped her. KIRO 7’s Dave Wagner broke Pina’s original story and expressed an interest in covering Captain Engelien’s side of the story only if Captain Engelien would do an in-person, on-camera interview. Without an on-camera interview, it appears Dave Wagner is not interested in updating KIRO 7's story with the polygraph results either. Alaska Airline’s gag order is making it virtually impossible for Captain Engelien to defend himself against Pina’s allegations.

MEDIA NOTIFIED VIA A PRESS RELEASE THAT CAPTAIN ENGELIEN PASSED A POLYGRAPH
Seattle Print/Internet
Seattle Times
Seattle PI
Puget Sound Business Journal
The Stranger
Seattle Radio/TV/Internet
KOMO
KIRO
KING
FOX
Non-Seattle Print/Internet
Spokesman Review
The Oregonian
Anchorage Daily News
LA Times
Dallas Morning News
Chicago Tribune
Tampa Bay Times / St. Pete Times
Boston Globe
Non-Seattle Print/Internet
San Francisco Chronicle / SFGate
Sacramento Bee
Arizona Republic
NY Times
NY Daily News
Washington Post
Atlanta Journal Constitution
Honolulu Star-Advertiser
National TV/Radio/Internet
ABC News and Good Morning America
CBS News and CBS This Morning
NBC News and Today Show
FOX News
International Business Times
Daily Mail
The Independent
FlyerTalk.com
Thepointsguy.com
Thecut.com

Mass Distribution Release
Associated Press (AP Wire)

Because the media doesn’t appear interested in updating their coverage, yesterday I began sending personal emails directly to journalists of select media outlets that covered Pina’s story. I personally introduced myself, notified each journalist/producer that Captain Engelien passed a polygraph and requested that they update their coverage. I have only heard back from the two journalists in bold below. While they have not yet updated their coverage, I’m hopeful they will.

IBEX News
The Seattle Times
ABC News
Newsweek
HeraldNet
Daily Beast
Puget Sound Business Journal
Business Insider
The New York Times
The Washington Post
Mr. Leacock
Mr. Kamb
Ms. Thorbecke and Ms. Ghebremedhin
Mr. Palmer
Mr. Pattison
Ms. Messer
Mr. McIntosh
Mr. Zhang
Ms. Hauser
Ms. Eltagouri

The good news is there’s power in social media. If the mainstream media isn’t interested in covering the full story, I’m hopeful I can get this information out via the power of the internet and social networking. I have included the press release below and hope that you will share this email with your peers and invite them to share it on social media, list-serves and other outlets to the extent they feel comfortable doing so. I’d also like anyone who believes they may have information relevant to this case to contact Investigator Mortensen at [email protected] or myself at [email protected].

Warm regards,

Sheri Pewitt ​, Attorney​
206.941.0009 ph
206.467.3152 fax
[email protected]
www.pewittlaw.com

WHACKMASTER

You go Paul. I hope you bury her and Alaska for ruining your career and causing you so much stress. Alaska HR has been out of control with all of the terminations lately. As for her, hopefully she gets to fly a cargo plane full of rubber dog poop for the rest of her career. What a royal