Senority List Integration from 2007 on......
04-04-2016, 09:31 PM
#41
New Hire
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by 2loud
Seriously dude?!?!
I won't get into details and start another argument, as some of ya'll just like to pick fights on these boards. EVERYONE paid their dues, whether you were a regional guy or a military bubba. Everyone has a sob story. Quite frankly, I'm tired of these guys who come up to me and tell me, "I didn't f-ing spend xx years at a regional for this". News flash.... no one made you give up your cushy regional job to come here. If the regional world was so cushy, why did you leave? You knew exactly what the pay rates/bennies were and what you were getting into, and now that your buddy who is at UAL, DAL, AA, FedEx, UPS, etc. are making a heck of lot more $$$ than you, you feel robbed, right? It's human nature and I totally get it. Really, I do. There are doers and then there's the entitled crowd.... you know, the loud mouth cry babies who won't do jack about their situation. I suggest that you either stay here and make things better or aggressively seek out your dream airline. I would if I were under 40 with less than 5 years on the property.
I'm no company man and this pilot group is weak and dysfunctional, I know. I whine with the best of them but I refuse to feel entitled. I'm here to stay and will do my best to make this place better for ALL pilots. The "association" nor the company will make it happen, so it's up to each of us to make things right. I choose to treat everyone with respect and compassion to the best of my abilities. I know a thing or two about trials and tribulations of life. I busted my a$$ since I was a kid and damn right, I've earned my place in life with a lot of help from the Man above.
Again, crying out of your anus gets you no where, even on a public forum. There are plenty of guys here on the property who've "paid" the price. Just ask the post Kasher survivors and worse yet, the folks who were furloughed. It will always be something, so get used to it.
I won't get into details and start another argument, as some of ya'll just like to pick fights on these boards. EVERYONE paid their dues, whether you were a regional guy or a military bubba. Everyone has a sob story. Quite frankly, I'm tired of these guys who come up to me and tell me, "I didn't f-ing spend xx years at a regional for this". News flash.... no one made you give up your cushy regional job to come here. If the regional world was so cushy, why did you leave? You knew exactly what the pay rates/bennies were and what you were getting into, and now that your buddy who is at UAL, DAL, AA, FedEx, UPS, etc. are making a heck of lot more $$$ than you, you feel robbed, right? It's human nature and I totally get it. Really, I do. There are doers and then there's the entitled crowd.... you know, the loud mouth cry babies who won't do jack about their situation. I suggest that you either stay here and make things better or aggressively seek out your dream airline. I would if I were under 40 with less than 5 years on the property.
I'm no company man and this pilot group is weak and dysfunctional, I know. I whine with the best of them but I refuse to feel entitled. I'm here to stay and will do my best to make this place better for ALL pilots. The "association" nor the company will make it happen, so it's up to each of us to make things right. I choose to treat everyone with respect and compassion to the best of my abilities. I know a thing or two about trials and tribulations of life. I busted my a$$ since I was a kid and damn right, I've earned my place in life with a lot of help from the Man above.
Again, crying out of your anus gets you no where, even on a public forum. There are plenty of guys here on the property who've "paid" the price. Just ask the post Kasher survivors and worse yet, the folks who were furloughed. It will always be something, so get used to it.
04-04-2016, 10:34 PM
#42
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Ret. airline president
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by A330Checkairman
Im one of those senior VX guys. I am however very grateful that I will at atleast have a job since my beautiful wife of 26 years has only a few months to live. She won't be here to see the transition, but atleast she will know her husband can still support her children, get them through college, and hopefully have a great career at AS. I will take a right seat job and pull gear for you sir. I think you will appreciate my 30 years of experience and maybe buy me a beer. That's all I am asking.
04-04-2016, 11:03 PM
#43
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: 7th green
Posts: 4,378
Career Expectations
My only comment on this topic regards the term "career expectations."
The term originated at the ALPA BoD meeting in the mid-90s. It came about during the abortive attempt by United to merge with USAir. It was inserted in the ALPA Merger/Fragmentation Policy as a replacement for "Date of Hire."
Why? It was to protect United widebody Captain seats from senior USAir pilots. United, being the 900 lb. gorilla at the time, pushed the change through.
"Career Expectations" has nothing, repeat NOTHING to do with seniority position when two narrowbody airlines merge their seniority lists. It is ONLY there to exclude pilots who were not hired at airlines flying widebody equipment from upgrading on widebodies before that airline's pilots had their opportunity. That's where fences came from.
Including "No Bump, No Flush" language in the SLI agreement guarantees that no current AS or VX Captain would lose their seat until that individual voluntarily bids out of it. That seat would then be filled by the next senior bidder on the integrated seniority list however that may be determined.
One final thought...BOTH pilot groups should express to their respective MECs how they want a merged seniority list to look. Both MECs need to hire the best lawyer they can afford to participate in the negotiation. Then let your merger committees do their thing.
Debating the issue on this board is wasted bandwidth. This week in Germany, I witnessed a group of Atlas pilots debating AT LENGTH how the Southern pilots should be integrated into their list. A complete waste of time and the discussion got quite heated at some points.
While quite entertaining from a fly on the wall perspective, I couldn't help but wonder if it might have CRM ramifications down the road. Don't let yourself get wrapped up in meaningless worry/speculation. What will be will be and unless you're on the Merger Committee or the MEC there's very little you as an individual can do about it anyway.
The term originated at the ALPA BoD meeting in the mid-90s. It came about during the abortive attempt by United to merge with USAir. It was inserted in the ALPA Merger/Fragmentation Policy as a replacement for "Date of Hire."
Why? It was to protect United widebody Captain seats from senior USAir pilots. United, being the 900 lb. gorilla at the time, pushed the change through.
"Career Expectations" has nothing, repeat NOTHING to do with seniority position when two narrowbody airlines merge their seniority lists. It is ONLY there to exclude pilots who were not hired at airlines flying widebody equipment from upgrading on widebodies before that airline's pilots had their opportunity. That's where fences came from.
Including "No Bump, No Flush" language in the SLI agreement guarantees that no current AS or VX Captain would lose their seat until that individual voluntarily bids out of it. That seat would then be filled by the next senior bidder on the integrated seniority list however that may be determined.
One final thought...BOTH pilot groups should express to their respective MECs how they want a merged seniority list to look. Both MECs need to hire the best lawyer they can afford to participate in the negotiation. Then let your merger committees do their thing.
Debating the issue on this board is wasted bandwidth. This week in Germany, I witnessed a group of Atlas pilots debating AT LENGTH how the Southern pilots should be integrated into their list. A complete waste of time and the discussion got quite heated at some points.
While quite entertaining from a fly on the wall perspective, I couldn't help but wonder if it might have CRM ramifications down the road. Don't let yourself get wrapped up in meaningless worry/speculation. What will be will be and unless you're on the Merger Committee or the MEC there's very little you as an individual can do about it anyway.
04-05-2016, 12:56 AM
#45
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: 7th green
Posts: 4,378
Originally Posted by qazWSX
So a little tighter to the vest, I've beeen a "nicotine" addict for 30 years. Where will this leave me?
04-05-2016, 04:03 AM
#46
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 65
I think it will be a fairly relative integration...
I mean, it's not like you have a smaller carrier buying a dying legacy on its second trip thru bankruptcy with 1/3 of its entire pilot group furloughed with no future whatsoever...
As far as merger attorneys go, I believe that Alaska has Freund on retainer...
Good luck to all! It's gonna be a hell of a ride!
I mean, it's not like you have a smaller carrier buying a dying legacy on its second trip thru bankruptcy with 1/3 of its entire pilot group furloughed with no future whatsoever...
As far as merger attorneys go, I believe that Alaska has Freund on retainer...
Good luck to all! It's gonna be a hell of a ride!
04-05-2016, 06:21 AM
#47
New Hire
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by A330Checkairman
Im one of those senior VX guys. I am however very grateful that I will at atleast have a job since my beautiful wife of 26 years has only a few months to live. She won't be here to see the transition, but atleast she will know her husband can still support her children, get them through college, and hopefully have a great career at AS. I will take a right seat job and pull gear for you sir. I think you will appreciate my 30 years of experience and maybe buy me a beer. That's all I am asking.
04-05-2016, 09:12 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,459
Originally Posted by 2loud
The blood hasn't even dried and we already have people whining like stuck pigs. You know who you are, "oh my vagina hurts" cry babies! SLI will be what it will be and none of us involved will have very little to no control over it. I feel for all ranks but especially the junior folks, no doubt.
Some of you feel extremely entitled, having spent over a decade at a regional or wherever before coming to Alaskan Airways. Guess what, everyone here has paid their dues one way or another so man up! We all bash the senior "I got mine" crowd but some of you act just like them. Like it or not, $hit just hit the fan for both pilot groups and neither of the groups wanted/asked for/dreamed of this so now, we deal with it like an adult. I hate to break it to you but life is not fair. I bet you didn't know that. For once, put yourself aside and try to put yourself in the shoes of a junior Virgin pilot or someone less junior to you. This is the exact sort of attitude that got us our current turd of a contract! True colors are coming out from the woodworks.
Btw, I'm pretty sure Klsytakesit voted NO on our last contract. I know it's just a web forum but you'll get no credibility when you spout off from your anus.
Some of you feel extremely entitled, having spent over a decade at a regional or wherever before coming to Alaskan Airways. Guess what, everyone here has paid their dues one way or another so man up! We all bash the senior "I got mine" crowd but some of you act just like them. Like it or not, $hit just hit the fan for both pilot groups and neither of the groups wanted/asked for/dreamed of this so now, we deal with it like an adult. I hate to break it to you but life is not fair. I bet you didn't know that. For once, put yourself aside and try to put yourself in the shoes of a junior Virgin pilot or someone less junior to you. This is the exact sort of attitude that got us our current turd of a contract! True colors are coming out from the woodworks.
Btw, I'm pretty sure Klsytakesit voted NO on our last contract. I know it's just a web forum but you'll get no credibility when you spout off from your anus.
Originally Posted by 2loud
Seriously dude?!?!
I won't get into details and start another argument, as some of ya'll just like to pick fights on these boards. EVERYONE paid their dues, whether you were a regional guy or a military bubba. Everyone has a sob story. Quite frankly, I'm tired of these guys who come up to me and tell me, "I didn't f-ing spend xx years at a regional for this". News flash.... no one made you give up your cushy regional job to come here. If the regional world was so cushy, why did you leave? You knew exactly what the pay rates/bennies were and what you were getting into, and now that your buddy who is at UAL, DAL, AA, FedEx, UPS, etc. are making a heck of lot more $$$ than you, you feel robbed, right? It's human nature and I totally get it. Really, I do. There are doers and then there's the entitled crowd.... you know, the loud mouth cry babies who won't do jack about their situation. I suggest that you either stay here and make things better or aggressively seek out your dream airline. I would if I were under 40 with less than 5 years on the property.
I'm no company man and this pilot group is weak and dysfunctional, I know. I whine with the best of them but I refuse to feel entitled. I'm here to stay and will do my best to make this place better for ALL pilots. The "association" nor the company will make it happen, so it's up to each of us to make things right. I choose to treat everyone with respect and compassion to the best of my abilities. I know a thing or two about trials and tribulations of life. I busted my a$$ since I was a kid and damn right, I've earned my place in life with a lot of help from the Man above.
Again, crying out of your anus gets you no where, even on a public forum. There are plenty of guys here on the property who've "paid" the price. Just ask the post Kasher survivors and worse yet, the folks who were furloughed. It will always be something, so get used to it.
I won't get into details and start another argument, as some of ya'll just like to pick fights on these boards. EVERYONE paid their dues, whether you were a regional guy or a military bubba. Everyone has a sob story. Quite frankly, I'm tired of these guys who come up to me and tell me, "I didn't f-ing spend xx years at a regional for this". News flash.... no one made you give up your cushy regional job to come here. If the regional world was so cushy, why did you leave? You knew exactly what the pay rates/bennies were and what you were getting into, and now that your buddy who is at UAL, DAL, AA, FedEx, UPS, etc. are making a heck of lot more $$$ than you, you feel robbed, right? It's human nature and I totally get it. Really, I do. There are doers and then there's the entitled crowd.... you know, the loud mouth cry babies who won't do jack about their situation. I suggest that you either stay here and make things better or aggressively seek out your dream airline. I would if I were under 40 with less than 5 years on the property.
I'm no company man and this pilot group is weak and dysfunctional, I know. I whine with the best of them but I refuse to feel entitled. I'm here to stay and will do my best to make this place better for ALL pilots. The "association" nor the company will make it happen, so it's up to each of us to make things right. I choose to treat everyone with respect and compassion to the best of my abilities. I know a thing or two about trials and tribulations of life. I busted my a$$ since I was a kid and damn right, I've earned my place in life with a lot of help from the Man above.
Again, crying out of your anus gets you no where, even on a public forum. There are plenty of guys here on the property who've "paid" the price. Just ask the post Kasher survivors and worse yet, the folks who were furloughed. It will always be something, so get used to it.
Honestly, you've almost got the meaning of life figured out here. Life isn't fair! The axiom that trumps all. The sooner a child figures this out, the happier adult he/she will become. I appreciate the words.
04-05-2016, 11:52 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Driving to work & Looking Left @ the Surf!!
Posts: 727
Originally Posted by A330Checkairman
Im one of those senior VX guys. I am however very grateful that I will at atleast have a job since my beautiful wife of 26 years has only a few months to live. She won't be here to see the transition, but atleast she will know her husband can still support her children, get them through college, and hopefully have a great career at AS. I will take a right seat job and pull gear for you sir. I think you will appreciate my 30 years of experience and maybe buy me a beer. That's all I am asking.
Baja.
04-05-2016, 12:59 PM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,423
Originally Posted by A330Checkairman
Im one of those senior VX guys. I am however very grateful that I will at atleast have a job since my beautiful wife of 26 years has only a few months to live. She won't be here to see the transition, but atleast she will know her husband can still support her children, get them through college, and hopefully have a great career at AS. I will take a right seat job and pull gear for you sir. I think you will appreciate my 30 years of experience and maybe buy me a beer. That's all I am asking.
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