Originally Posted by Making Sense (Post 3864766)

Namaste dear Tom, and blessed Christmas wishes to you!

The point you are bringing up is an interesting one: Are posts a problem if the one who critiques does not offer a solution?

I sense an interesting energy you're bringing into our space today: the question of whether criticism without solution creates negative karma. Let your mind be at peace. Most critical posts in this forum, including yours, don’t show solutions.

As I have explained multiple times, the TEAMSTERS need to step aside for negotiations to progress. This is a critical point that bears repeating - their current involvement is creating a roadblock in the process rather than facilitating movement forward. The negotiations cannot advance productively while they maintain their current position and approach.

Let me be clear about the next strategic move here: the NC needs to put all their cards on the table with a comprehensive package deal. We're talking about a complete proposal that wraps up both the open sections and the previously agreed-upon terms into one cohesive package. This isn't just about checking boxes for strike authorization - it's about giving management the full financial picture they need to make informed decisions.

From a negotiation standpoint, this comprehensive approach serves two critical purposes. First, it allows management to conduct a thorough cost-benefit analysis across all provisions. Second, it shifts the dynamic from piecemeal bargaining to package-deal negotiations, which typically leads to more efficient decision-making and better outcomes for both parties.
What worked for Delta doesn’t work for us!By presenting a complete package, we force management to evaluate the total value proposition rather than getting bogged down in section-by-section debates.

Let me lay this out clearly: No comprehensive proposal = no strike authorization. It's that straightforward.

Management will have to respond with their own complete package - this is where they'll finally have to reveal their true position. Sure, if their counter falls too short, I expect we'll hear plenty of outrage from both the pro-TEAMSTERS crowd and the anti-management faction. But here's the thing: I believe their offer will be more reasonable than most of you are anticipating. At that point, our NC can get down to the real work of hammering out a compromise through intensive negotiations.
Then we vote on it. It’s not rocket science.Many of us face an issue where the same narrative persists, even after we changed our union leadership, because you, Tom, and many others have continued to uphold the same old meme. This narrative was effectively introduced by AR and his vocal fanboys and it appears to have taken root in the minds of too many of us. It is straightforward and believable, which leads to at least half of our group accepting it, largely due to a lack of independent thinking.

This meme suggests that management is uninterested in making a deal, the union lacks power, and the only strategy is to prolong negotiations until we can strike, ultimately securing a collective bargaining agreement comparable to others.

It may sound appealing, which is why it has gained so much traction. Unfortunately, this belief is misguided. We will not achieve the same pay and benefits as the big three or Southwest. Additionally, for reasons I've outlined in earlier posts, we will NOT be authorized to strike.

Allegiant operates under a unique business model and possesses a distinct management mindset compared to other airlines. It's puzzling that it isn't clear to everyone that we cannot simply replicate the negotiation strategies used by other airlines.

This Christmas, I offer not conviction, but liberation. The choice to think freely, to unplug from the collective delusion.

So, Tom... will you take the blue pill, remain in this fabricated meme resulting in endless negotiations? Or take the red pill, and see how deep the rabbit hole really goes?
The choice, as always, is yours.

Originally Posted by Margaritaville (Post 3864809)

What a weirdo. Bet you wear long sleeve shirts (no tats) too.

Throw all the cards on the table so management can evaluate? "Allegiant's unique business model" means not getting a contract on par with the rest of the industry? You're management's wet dream.

Seriously who talks like this? You cannot be taken seriously. And Allegiant pilots won't go non union so just stop.

Originally Posted by Margaritaville (Post 3864809)

What a weirdo. Bet you wear long sleeve shirts (no tats) too.

Throw all the cards on the table so management can evaluate? "Allegiant's unique business model" means not getting a contract on par with the rest of the industry? You're management's wet dream.

Seriously who talks like this? You cannot be taken seriously. And Allegiant pilots won't go non union so just stop.

Originally Posted by Margaritaville (Post 3864809)

What a weirdo. Bet you wear long sleeve shirts (no tats) too.

Throw all the cards on the table so management can evaluate? "Allegiant's unique business model" means not getting a contract on par with the rest of the industry? You're management's wet dream.

Seriously who talks like this? You cannot be taken seriously. And Allegiant pilots won't go non union so just stop.

Originally Posted by jimmy8 (Post 3864804)

“No later than sixty (60) days following the ratification of the Parties' amended
CBA, the Company will payout the actual calculated retention bonus amount due
to each Pilot. The actual calculated retention bonus amount to be paid to a Pilot will
be determined following the ratification the Parties' amended CBA by utilizing the
greater of that Pilot's actual monthly earned Pay Credit Hours ("PCH"), or eighty-
five (85) PCH, from May 1, 2023, through the date of actual ratification, prorated
accordingly for a partial month depending upon the date of actual ratification.”

if this isn’t clear to you that 100% of the bonus has to be paid within 60 days idk what else to tell you.

Originally Posted by Making Sense (Post 3864766)

Namaste dear Tom, and blessed Christmas wishes to you!

The point you are bringing up is an interesting one: Are posts a problem if the one who critiques does not offer a solution?

I sense an interesting energy you're bringing into our space today: the question of whether criticism without solution creates negative karma. Let your mind be at peace. Most critical posts in this forum, including yours, don’t show solutions.

As I have explained multiple times, the TEAMSTERS need to step aside for negotiations to progress. This is a critical point that bears repeating - their current involvement is creating a roadblock in the process rather than facilitating movement forward. The negotiations cannot advance productively while they maintain their current position and approach.

Let me be clear about the next strategic move here: the NC needs to put all their cards on the table with a comprehensive package deal. We're talking about a complete proposal that wraps up both the open sections and the previously agreed-upon terms into one cohesive package. This isn't just about checking boxes for strike authorization - it's about giving management the full financial picture they need to make informed decisions.

From a negotiation standpoint, this comprehensive approach serves two critical purposes. First, it allows management to conduct a thorough cost-benefit analysis across all provisions. Second, it shifts the dynamic from piecemeal bargaining to package-deal negotiations, which typically leads to more efficient decision-making and better outcomes for both parties.
What worked for Delta doesn’t work for us!By presenting a complete package, we force management to evaluate the total value proposition rather than getting bogged down in section-by-section debates.

Let me lay this out clearly: No comprehensive proposal = no strike authorization. It's that straightforward.

Management will have to respond with their own complete package - this is where they'll finally have to reveal their true position. Sure, if their counter falls too short, I expect we'll hear plenty of outrage from both the pro-TEAMSTERS crowd and the anti-management faction. But here's the thing: I believe their offer will be more reasonable than most of you are anticipating. At that point, our NC can get down to the real work of hammering out a compromise through intensive negotiations.
Then we vote on it. It’s not rocket science.Many of us face an issue where the same narrative persists, even after we changed our union leadership, because you, Tom, and many others have continued to uphold the same old meme. This narrative was effectively introduced by AR and his vocal fanboys and it appears to have taken root in the minds of too many of us. It is straightforward and believable, which leads to at least half of our group accepting it, largely due to a lack of independent thinking.

This meme suggests that management is uninterested in making a deal, the union lacks power, and the only strategy is to prolong negotiations until we can strike, ultimately securing a collective bargaining agreement comparable to others.

It may sound appealing, which is why it has gained so much traction. Unfortunately, this belief is misguided. We will not achieve the same pay and benefits as the big three or Southwest. Additionally, for reasons I've outlined in earlier posts, we will NOT be authorized to strike.

Allegiant operates under a unique business model and possesses a distinct management mindset compared to other airlines. It's puzzling that it isn't clear to everyone that we cannot simply replicate the negotiation strategies used by other airlines.

This Christmas, I offer not conviction, but liberation. The choice to think freely, to unplug from the collective delusion.

So, Tom... will you take the blue pill, remain in this fabricated meme resulting in endless negotiations? Or take the red pill, and see how deep the rabbit hole really goes?
The choice, as always, is yours.

Originally Posted by Captainbfv (Post 3864924)

But like I said earlier, members of the NC are telling pilots that we will be released soon (By March), then I can only encourage EVERY SINGLE PILOT ON PROPERTY that I can reach out to, to hold them accountable for their words. Meaning IF it doesn't happen in March, then there will be no other do overs, asks of more patience, or whatever rhetoric!

Originally Posted by tom11011 (Post 3864950)

I find it hard to believe that anyone could possibly have any reliable information regarding a release in March. The parties haven't even sat down with the new mediator. I'm going to go out on a limb and say this never happened or something was misunderstood.

Originally Posted by Captainbfv (Post 3864924)

You know Marge, I gotta tell ya bud. You've been at it here (Allegiant Forum) for quite some time. You've been outspoken and very critical of a lot; which is fine. Everyone in this forum a the right to speak out, and give their opinion; but it only goes so far.

My biggest point of contention with some of you is that although you speak very loudly, and might have "some fact" you failed to lead in a manner that was actually effective. You moved on to AA, and good for you brother. You made your decision, and it appears to be working out ok. But frankly at times it seems like you only come back and post to rub it in everyone's face that you're doing well under the premise that you still have friends here and you're concerened about them. My friend, you moved on, made your bed, move on. Many of us are still here and have decided to endure and fight for this pilot group.

While you were here, did you... AT ALL? Do anything to make changes? Did you come out behind the keyboard and actually try to improve things or at least voice you opinion to make a change? Some of us have legit stuck our necks out at a level that even the old guard have tried to come after us, trumping up accusations. We continue to push back or more so speak clearely and loudly as to where we stand.

We demand industry standard and respect from our airline management, while doing the same to our representation. AR filled the pilot's group brain with industry leading nonsense, then industry standard only to fall incredibly short of EITHER by running the local like a hot dog stand without the proper permits. This pilot group has endured an incredible amount due to severely lacking leadership on boths sides of the isle. Those of us that remain here are pursuing that as we speak.

I understand that the ALPA drive talk is a sensitive one... I pushed back on it in June bc I believed with info I had at that in point in time, that we were close to a deal and decertifying would delay that. I'm not saying I was wrong, bc it's still too soon in MY HUMBLE OPINION. But after 6 months of the current state of negotiations, and the unions (along with NC) decision to go down this road I can only say I am incredibly disappointed.

But like I said earlier, members of the NC are telling pilots that we will be released soon (By March), then I can only encourage EVERY SINGLE PILOT ON PROPERTY that I can reach out to, to hold them accountable for their words. Meaning IF it doesn't happen in March, then there will be no other do overs, asks of more patience, or whatever rhetoric! We cannot allow unelected individuals to sink us deeper in the sauce. More importantly, this pilot group must demand elections and voting in proper representation. Regardless of everyone's opinion of GU (I have my own) I'll thank him personally for all the work he has done to get this local up and running in a respectable manner AFTER we vote our own into office and to the EBOARD. I will expect that EBOARD to properly represent and put this body's group's priorities front and center before any personal, or political agendas.

So again, bud... Not sure what you're going for or trying to inject by still coming back to this forum and demeaning actual Allegiant pilot. This isn't your battle anymore, hasn't been for a while. I appreaciate your engagement at times, but other times, it seems like you have a personal vendetta or are just trying to demoralize pilots.

Merry Christmas brother.

Originally Posted by tom11011 (Post 3864942)

It's not crystal clear.

"the Company will payout the actual calculated retention bonus amount due
to each Pilot." is not the same as saying "the Company will payout the actual calculated retention bonus amount due
to each Pilot as a single lump sum payment."