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310skying 06-19-2023 01:58 AM


Originally Posted by captnate702 (Post 3652979)
The accrual/longevity bonus they’ve paid us already is above spirit and and above Alaska at certain steps. And it will take another big bump from there to get a contract ratified.

the money will definitely be there. The sticking point will be scheduling and PBS. AR and management are entrenched in the unstack and both are likely being ridiculous.


not really. If AR wins unstack on July 5 that solidifies it as part of our current CBA, forces the company to hire 20% more pilots to fly the published schedule with CBI, and puts a ton of pressure on them to negotiate a CBA so the can use NavBlue (no head count increase required)

also no money has been paid or set aside, while I agree it will 100% be paid out and likely be increased, nothing actualy happens until a CBA happens. Including getting paid the bonus

captnate702 06-19-2023 07:20 AM


Originally Posted by 310skying (Post 3653009)
not really. If AR wins unstack on July 5 that solidifies it as part of our current CBA, forces the company to hire 20% more pilots to fly the published schedule with CBI, and puts a ton of pressure on them to negotiate a CBA so the can use NavBlue (no head count increase required)

also no money has been paid or set aside, while I agree it will 100% be paid out and likely be increased, nothing actualy happens until a CBA happens. Including getting paid the bonus

HAHAHAHA you think this unstack arbitration is gonna settle things?? As long as we have a spreadsheet that management built as our “PBS” then management can change it anytime it wants.

Winning this arbitration won’t change anything and that’s if we win - AR has lost what 7-8 arbitrations in a row??

tom11011 06-19-2023 08:00 AM


Originally Posted by captnate702 (Post 3653104)
HAHAHAHA you think this unstack arbitration is gonna settle things?? As long as we have a spreadsheet that management built as our “PBS” then management can change it anytime it wants.

Winning this arbitration won’t change anything and that’s if we win - AR has lost what 7-8 arbitrations in a row??

What is it you want?

captnate702 06-19-2023 09:24 AM


Originally Posted by tom11011 (Post 3653134)
What is it you want?

An industry standard PBS instead of some “solver” built by management that they can change when they want.

also I want ALPA - they are the standard for the entire industry.

We won’t get an industry standard contract with the most backward union leadership in the entire industry.

Also, we should stop thinking that grievances and arbitrations are some panacea. They are just the opium for the masses that AR keeps feeding us to justify the highest pilot union dues in the world.

AR built a fiefdom and he needs to deliver. No more excuses or nonsense about why things are so bad and management is evil, etc. he’s had his run of the place for 5+ years and I haven’t seen the results.

tom11011 06-19-2023 09:33 AM


Originally Posted by captnate702 (Post 3653173)
An industry standard PBS instead of some “solver” built by management that they can change when they want.

also I want ALPA - they are the standard for the entire industry.

We won’t get an industry standard contract with the most backward union leadership in the entire industry.

Also, we should stop thinking that grievances and arbitrations are some panacea. They are just the opium for the masses that AR keeps feeding us to justify the highest pilot union dues in the world.

AR built a fiefdom and he needs to deliver. No more excuses or nonsense about why things are so bad and management is evil, etc. he’s had his run of the place for 5+ years and I haven’t seen the results.

All that is possible but first we need to get to a contract. We can't just cutover to Alpa in the middle of all this, it would set us back. And there is a high degree of possibility that AR will want to move on personally anyway after this. The question of Alpa can be put to a vote.

Regarding the solver, it won't matter what brand it is after this arbitration.

captnate702 06-19-2023 12:11 PM


Originally Posted by tom11011 (Post 3653181)
All that is possible but first we need to get to a contract. We can't just cutover to Alpa in the middle of all this, it would set us back. And there is a high degree of possibility that AR will want to move on personally anyway after this. The question of Alpa can be put to a vote.

Regarding the solver, it won't matter what brand it is after this arbitration.

HAHAHAHA the amount of faith you have in this arbitration is ludicrous. Keep drinking that kool aid that AR is serving you.

AR has been preaching about this for over 5 years. It’s always the next arbitration, the next arbitration. He never stops moving the goal posts.

even if we win, it’s still a spreadsheet that management can manipulate and change however they want. AR keeps talking out both sides of his mouth and you all keep drinking his kool aid.

trvsmrtn 06-19-2023 12:52 PM


Originally Posted by captnate702 (Post 3653282)
HAHAHAHA the amount of faith you have in this arbitration is ludicrous. Keep drinking that kool aid that AR is serving you.

AR has been preaching about this for over 5 years. It’s always the next arbitration, the next arbitration. He never stops moving the goal posts.

even if we win, it’s still a spreadsheet that management can manipulate and change however they want. AR keeps talking out both sides of his mouth and you all keep drinking his kool aid.

Who hurt you?

captnate702 06-19-2023 12:57 PM


Originally Posted by trvsmrtn (Post 3653305)
Who hurt you?

just trying to give y’all kool aid drinkers a dose of reality.

310skying 06-19-2023 01:57 PM


Originally Posted by captnate702 (Post 3653309)
just trying to give y’all kool aid drinkers a dose of reality.


they’ve won this arbitration three times,

first in arbitration against a notoriously pro company arbitrator

second at the 7th district federal court in Nevada

third on appeal in federal court

I’m willing to put money on wining this arbitration in July and it will make a huge difference

captnate702 06-19-2023 02:15 PM


Originally Posted by 310skying (Post 3653355)
they’ve won this arbitration three times,

first in arbitration against a notoriously pro company arbitrator

second at the 7th district federal court in Nevada

third on appeal in federal court

I’m willing to put money on wining this arbitration in July and it will make a huge difference

then why are we arbitrating it again??? If we’ve already won it three times then what are we fighting?

this is smoke and mirrors. AR is gonna be talking about this in 2028… but all of you AR worshippers can keep drinking his kool aid.

AR wants this because it is his “build the wall” political slogan. Once we get an industry standard PBS like nav or jepp then AR’s political slogan dies. I wouldn’t be surprised if he wants to keep the our current “pbs” solver just so he can keep on campaigning on it.

Y’all forget that he’s a politician at this point (without any checks and balances). He hasn’t flown the line in over 5 years, he is gonna do and say whatever he needs to stay in control and keep his unchecked power.


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