jcountry

https://www.quora.com/How-many-black...here-in-the-US

They still represent a pretty low %.


That's my point.

Anyone who expects 4% of anything to comprise 50% of a hiring group doesn't care about equality of opportunity.

GHOST

Take that BS somewhere else. For every minority you claim to know who’s advanced faster than your white counterparts, I can similarly name a white/male pilot who’s advanced to a legacy faster than his peers. These types of pilots have been children of CheckAirmen, Chief Pilots or just part of the good ole boys club. I’m not calling you racist because I know your “neighbor/best friend is black.” White males are not being discriminated against in this country, and especially not the aviation industry. To claim that minority aviators have an easier path to the flight deck is just plain ignorance.

Learflyer

Well it sounds like you just called him a racist anyway. It's not racist if some of us are simply observing hiring practices. There will always [I] be more white males. That's not the point. The point is, women and minorities are getting the interviews first. But not always hired first. Just an observation. And if this is the same "ghost" from PPW, you have my deepest respect.

757HI

You're saying he lied on his application, "they" loved it, and he was hired.

Doesn't pass the smell test.

jcountry

Some people are lucky. Some people check a box. I have been on the other side of interview tables and I have personally witnessed the “we need to figure out how to hire every single (insert gender/ethnicity here) who walks through the door” speech. Don’t try and tell me that doesn’t happen. I have seen it first hand.

I could provide specifics of people I’ve known, but I won’t. Wouldn’t change anyone’s minds.

To say that “white people” aren’t discriminated against is absolutely crazy.

Every single day, a white guy gets rejected from law school, med school, etc, and etc because “white.” Affirmative action is legalized discrimination. There should be no check marks for ethnicity on any application to any school or job.

How bout that?

Doesn’t that idea strike you as fair?

How is race/gender relevant to what someone can do? Why do we ask on an app?

Your idealism falls far short of reality. We have created a world where discrimination is systematic and required by law. The real issue from my perspective is that it’s never gonna go away. Affirmative action is just as wrong as any of the old discrimination, but it’s something we all put up with because it’s socially acceptable to screw people on account of what people who look like them a hundred years back actually did.

stillageek

Not One Hundred....less than one generation. Nineteen Sixty Five was 53 years ago. I could give countless examples of how it was socially acceptable in my lifetime to discriminate against people of color and women. I saw it with my own eyes and even participated in it. I still do to a point to this day. I was born in the 70s.

I myself didn't get a second look until I directly spoke with a recruiter at a job fair and took every piece of advice he had and acted on it. It wasn't easy balancing regional pilot life, raising a kid and home life and finding time to improve my odds by volunteering inside the airline, outside the airline in aviation and outside the aviation for the community. But I made it work. That's what made the difference at least for me.

I was once asked to name a famous NFL Offensive lineman....I couldn't (I really am a geek). The person continued that they are all the same as they show up on game day and do their job. He said it was just like every RJ pilot looks exactly the same on paper....a few thousand hours of 121 time, a few more of 121 PIC, no check ride bust, college degree...great...but what makes them stand out? Going above and beyond...one way is job fairs and having the "elevator talk" about yourself clear and concise. Then it's all the extra stuff.

ecam

I may be from another time, but I've seen a lot of changes in this industry. And I've flown everything from crap broken down pistons, to Convairs, to turboprop commuters to RJs, to Airbus. And I'll retire from a ULCC. Long career and I never made it to a legacy carrier. But I blame no one except me being at the wrong place at the wrong time, a nearly mid life career change, and starting over a few times. **** happens.

Maybe you and your buddies sat fat dumb and happy in the left seat of an RJ throughout the lost decade, just turning the lights on and off, but now suddenly its ending, you have nothing to show for it but 10,000+ hours and a chip on your shoulder? While the younger ones never gave up, kept networking, kept volunteering, got new ratings, etc.

But no, its reverse discrimination. Yeah it's so hard to be a white guy in an industry that's 95% white and male. GMAFB.

I hope you get out of Expressjet before the music stops. I've been in your shoes (CMR) and it's not fun. A change of attitude may be required though. Nobody is going to buy into the white victim line you're selling. Not with HR doing the hiring. Good luck.

jcountry

I specifically mentioned legalized discrimination for a reason.

Huge difference between socially acceptable and legalized discrimination.

Affirmative action and all those EEOC laws specifically authorize and promote discrimination against certain groups. Many people think they are about equality. They are not. They actually formalize a legal carve out to authorize and encourage discrimination against certain groups.

As I mentioned earlier, race and gender have no bearing on academic achievement and job performance.

They shouldn’t even be listed on an app.

In my world, candidate’s names would even be concealed when people are looking at resumes and judging qualifications.

That would be true fairness.

ecam

So you're saying you think 95% white and male is unfair? What's your goal, 100%?

Women are slightly over 50% of the nation.
People with African descent are about 25%.

Yet these groups represent less than 5% of the industry. Why?

Ever think maybe "back in my day" people only wanted to hire those who looked like them and shared common interests?

That's why HR does the hiring now, not pilots.

jcountry

I’m saying none of it should matter.

No school app, job app, or anything other life course app should contain any race or gender info.

The names should be replaced with something like random numbers until the app progresses to the interview stage.

When a person sits down for an interview, the vast part of the selection process has been done. An interviewer shouldn’t even have any idea who’s up next, just call a number and the next qualified person steps up.

Fairness is what we are supposed to be after. Legalized discrimination is not fair.

Remember my earlier post? I was an interviewer for a previous employer. It was an airline. I remember how we were told we better hire people from certain racial/gender categories-just rubber stamp them, no matter how weak their knowledge or experience may have been.

That isn’t right. It’s no more right than what used to happen.