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E175 Driver 05-15-2018 08:39 AM


Originally Posted by Santini (Post 2581065)
Had my stuff in for a couple years at least.

7500+ TT
4000+ PIC TURB (Jet)
Master’s Degree
Currently 91/135 but have 121 Experience.

I am wondering if my times matrix is screwed up.

Are there head hunters out there or someone in recruiting I could call? I’m really bummed...

Many thanks in advance.

Apply to any Wholly Owned regional and flow to AA. No interview!!

ecam 05-15-2018 08:50 AM


Originally Posted by jcountry (Post 2594444)
I’m saying none of it should matter.

No school app, job app, or anything other life course app should contain any race or gender info.

The names should be replaced with something like random numbers until the app progresses to the interview stage.

When a person sits down for an interview, the vast part of the selection process has been done. An interviewer shouldn’t even have any idea who’s up next, just call a number and the next qualified person steps up.

Fairness is what we are supposed to be after. Legalized discrimination is not fair.

Remember my earlier post? I was an interviewer for a previous employer. It was an airline. I remember how we were told we better hire people from certain racial/gender categories-just rubber stamp them, no matter how weak their knowledge or experience may have been.

That isn’t right. It’s no more right than what used to happen.

Okay. Say you're hiring for a legacy carrier, and you have 6000 applications on file. They all exceed the hiring minimums, and 99% have the same or nearly the same qualifications on paper. You can hire 500. Do you interview all 6000, then go from there? How do you decide who gets interviewed.

Hiring for a small 135/121 carrier isn't the same. They have to use something to set applicants apart. Your argument that women and minorities/special interest groups are getting hired with less qualifications is BS and self serving. The only evidence you've presented is anecdotal. I have friends involved with hiring or recruiting at nearly every major airline. The numbers don't lie.

Customers and shareholders are demanding equality across the board, in all industries. Welcome to the world being run by millennials. Even an aging Boomer like myself can grasp that. so if everyone has the same qualifications, it behooves the airlines to hire some seriously underrepresented people. If you want to call that discrimination, fine, but it's hard to say a 95% majority is suffering from it.

jcountry 05-15-2018 09:12 AM


Originally Posted by ecam (Post 2594457)
Okay. Say you're hiring for a legacy carrier, and you have 6000 applications on file. They all exceed the hiring minimums, and 99% have the same or nearly the same qualifications on paper. You can hire 500. Do you interview all 6000, then go from there? How do you decide who gets interviewed.

Hiring for a small 135/121 carrier isn't the same. They have to use something to set applicants apart. Your argument that women and minorities/special interest groups are getting hired with less qualifications is BS and self serving. The only evidence you've presented is anecdotal. I have friends involved with hiring or recruiting at nearly every major airline. The numbers don't lie.

Customers and shareholders are demanding equality across the board, in all industries. Welcome to the world being run by millennials. Even an aging Boomer like myself can grasp that. so if everyone has the same qualifications, it behooves the airlines to hire some seriously underrepresented people. If you want to call that discrimination, fine, but it's hard to say a 95% majority is suffering from it.


I would decide who gets interviewed simply based on experience/background.

Currently, I think algorithms are used which assign points to various things-before any human ever sees an app. All that ethnic/gender stuff is worth points-and the value of that is probably vastly different depending on airline. I would delete that point system and any redact any way for the algorithm to imply such things from names.

I mentioned a while back I knew of a couple of women who were hired at XXXX back in the day with only temporary commercial certs. 250 hours-and not even a FE license. Both had gotten calls for an interview from airline XXXX without even applying. That airline was actually going down the list of new comm pilots and offering interviews to anyone who seemed like a female. Some had comm certs for other purposes, and had no intention of working for any airline-some just wanted to instruct part time or crop dust, etc..... There are plenty of fine women pilots out there, but I don't think anyone is ready for the kind of flying we do at that experience level.

Your last paragraph is off the mark. Customers and shareholders demand (and deserve) safety and competence. The fun stuff about what people look like should be entirely irrelevant.

Percentages shouldn't matter. If they do, how about I get a sweet gig in the NBA? I suck at basketball-but hey.... There's a % for you-and how about slapping me some majic equality??. Need more people looking like me there, don't we now?? (Why shouldn't their owners/fans demand and expect equality??) Could it be that it's no fun to watch people who suck try and play basketball??

I'd submit that our line of work is much more intolerant of ineptitude or incompetence. Consequences of a screw up are much worse than having to watch boring people who suck try and play a game poorly. Safety is what should matter in aviation. Hiring the best person for the job should be the goal. Other factors should be irrelevant.

Slaphappy 05-15-2018 10:06 AM


Originally Posted by GHOST (Post 2594200)
To claim that minority aviators have an easier path to the flight deck is just plain ignorance.

I'm sorry but that's just BS. With all the quotas and policies on diversity an average qualified minority or woman pilot will always get the call. This isn't limited just to aviation, in medical school it's much more pronounced.

http://cdn.almost.thedoctorschannel....ethnicity.jpeg

To deny being a minority or woman is an advantage when seeking employment is ridiculous.

ecam 05-15-2018 10:17 AM


Originally Posted by jcountry (Post 2594476)
I mentioned a while back I knew of a couple of women who were hired at XXXX back in the day with only temporary commercial certs. 250 hours-and not even a FE license. Both had gotten calls for an interview from airline XXXX without even applying. That airline was actually going down the list of new comm pilots and offering interviews to anyone who seemed like a female. Some had comm certs for other purposes, and had no intention of working for any airline-some just wanted to instruct part time or crop dust, etc..... There are plenty of fine women pilots out there, but I don't think anyone is ready for the kind of flying we do at that experience level.

Your last paragraph is off the mark. Customers and shareholders demand (and deserve) safety and competence. The fun stuff about what people look like should be entirely irrelevant.

Percentages shouldn't matter. If they do, how about I get a sweet gig in the NBA? I suck at basketball-but hey.... There's a % for you-and how about slapping me some majic equality??. Need more people looking like me there, don't we now?? (Why shouldn't their owners/fans demand and expect equality??) Could it be that it's no fun to watch people who suck try and play basketball??

I'd submit that our line of work is much more intolerant of ineptitude or incompetence. Consequences of a screw up are much worse than having to watch boring people who suck try and play a game poorly. Safety is what should matter in aviation. Hiring the best person for the job should be the goal. Other factors should be irrelevant.

A couple of women? Out of 70,000 airline pilots? That's all you've got?

And we are really getting off in the weeds here, but in your example of the NBA, if you're just as good as everyone else, what's the issue? You're inferring you suck at Bball but should be hired because you're a short, fat, nerdy white guy, and that somehow represents airline hiring, for which you've still failed to provide refuting evidence.

You still haven't presented numbers that women/minorities with less qualifications are getting hired before well qualified white males. You're just offering your opinion, and exposing that chip on your shoulder. Every legacy carrier releases hiring stats, and they prove you're FOS.

jcountry 05-15-2018 10:36 AM


Originally Posted by ecam (Post 2594518)
A couple of women? Out of 70,000 airline pilots? That's all you've got?

And we are really getting off in the weeds here, but in your example of the NBA, if you're just as good as everyone else, what's the issue? You're inferring you suck at Bball but should be hired because you're a short, fat, nerdy white guy, and that somehow represents airline hiring, for which you've still failed to provide refuting evidence.

You still haven't presented numbers that women/minorities with less qualifications are getting hired before well qualified white males. You're just offering your opinion, and exposing that chip on your shoulder. Every legacy carrier releases hiring stats, and they prove you're FOS.

Thanks for playing.

You are not interested in facts. I see I'm wasting my time here.

I got better stuff on the agenda.

Goodbye. Fare Thee Well!

ecam 05-15-2018 10:58 AM


Originally Posted by jcountry (Post 2594533)
Thanks for playing.

You are not interested in facts. I see I'm wasting my time here.

I got better stuff on the agenda.

Goodbye. Fare Thee Well!

You also suck at listening, reading, and comprehension.

"Thanks for playing".

Shaman 05-15-2018 01:44 PM

So apparently there's an 800 number for pilot hiring that states

Press 1 if you're Black
Press 2 if you have a vagina
Press #7 if you're Black and have a Vagina to schedule for the next available training class.


I read it on infowars so I am certain this is true.

SmoothLanderJ 05-15-2018 01:53 PM


Originally Posted by Slaphappy (Post 2594511)
I'm sorry but that's just BS. With all the quotas and policies on diversity an average qualified minority or woman pilot will always get the call. This isn't limited just to aviation, in medical school it's much more pronounced.

http://cdn.almost.thedoctorschannel....ethnicity.jpeg

To deny being a minority or woman is an advantage when seeking employment is ridiculous.

Then why are 50% of African Americans living at or below the poverty line, if they have an advantage gaining employment and opportunities??

A330FoodCritic 05-15-2018 02:51 PM


Originally Posted by Shaman (Post 2594658)
So apparently there's an 800 number for pilot hiring that states

Press 1 if you're Black
Press 2 if you have a vagina
Press #7 if you're Black and have a Vagina to schedule for the next available training class.


I read it on infowars so I am certain this is true.

Did you look at the recent new hire class?

https://www.alliedpilots.org/Committ...ership/NewHire


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